Has the world gone mad

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Playing Devil's advocate here:

How much pollution and 'wastage' of the planet's resources are we model engineers causing?

Millions of pounds are spent and valuable resources are used each year producing machine tools that are of no use to anyone but us so we can produce stuff merely for our own use and personal satisfaction. We burn coal etc. running our locos, traction engines, etc. again, for our own amusement, and use tons of materials in their construction. Most of what we produce is of no real benefit to the human race and could just be considered an extravagant waste.

John

Edited By John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:06:23

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:04:03:

Playing Devil's advocate here:

How much pollution and 'wastage' of the planet's resources are we model engineers causing?

Millions of pounds are spent and valuable resources are used each year producing machine tools that are of no use to anyone but us so we can produce stuff merely for our own use and personal satisfaction. We burn coal etc. running our locos, traction engines, etc. again, for our own amusement, and use tons of materials in their construction. Most of what we produce is of no real benefit to the human race and could just be considered an extravagant waste.

John

Edited By John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:06:23

You could have least included Football in there, somewhere. And any "celebrity" tv show.

Exclude Beer.

graham.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Oh err !! Seemed to have stirred things up a bit here. Last night I went to a talk about Fusion, Fission and Confusion. It was lovely, sitting under old tungsten bulbs and enjoying the heat and learning about such things as how much heat the sun gave off each second, and how much mankind consumed within a lifetime. Anyway back to low energy bulbs – I see that the latest car headlamp bulbs are high voltage, can't be replaced by the amater DIY bloke and cost a packet to replace. Does every thing have to be so complicated. Its probably a good reason for us tinkering in our sheds so that WE ARE IN CONTROL – that is before some Euro HSE dictate comes along to shut us all down. I see that we can't hire a chain saw now unless we have an NVQ in sawing.

It reminds me of a couple of years a go, my cousin invited me over to help him lift a particularly heavy and bulky piece of furniture through a 2nd floor window. On visiting a 'Lift and shift hire co' we could not have a hydraulic lift without an xxx qualification, but could hire a mechanical lift. So what was the difference except that the hydraulic unit was easy to operate safely, and the mechanical one was not quite so easy.

Mark my words – these Do Goody people will shut us down before we know it.

Bob H

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 23/01/2014 15:03:37:

(2) Various people have proposed schemes for the wireless transmission of power electricity over large and small distances .

..yet here, in France, the government is discussing a proposed ban on WiFi routers in schools because some idiots have said (with no evidence) that it might be dangerous for health! Yes, the world has gone mad

Russell.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/01/2014 23:42:17:Ian's suggestion makes sense to me … We just need one decently engineered power supply to feed a low-voltage circuit … 'though I'm not sure if it would be better as ring, or star. I would go for a nominal 12volt DC, to make it compatible with car systems [for the benefits of spin-off technology].

..and include a 12 V battery in case of power cuts and to enable the lighting to run on cheap rate electricity?

Russell.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

On thinking further, yes your right 12V is the way to go, my workshop is all ready wired. Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:04:03:

Playing Devil's advocate here:

… so we can produce stuff merely for our own use and personal satisfaction. We burn coal etc. running our locos, traction engines, etc. again, for our own amusement, and use tons of materials in their construction. Most of what we produce is of no real benefit to the human race and could just be considered an extravagant waste.

.

So; let's embrace the "Experimental Engineers" side of the hobby …

Ian SC already provides an excellent example with his Hot-Air engines, but we could be experimenting with Wind & Water power, and who knows what else.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 24/01/2014 09:15:36

..and include a 12 V battery in case of power cuts and to enable the lighting to run on cheap rate electricity?

.

Yes indeed

But if you happen to have a suitable site available …

Maybe build a scaled-down version of this

MichaelG.

[Trevor WrightParticipant @trevorwright62541]

A 12v system is not all that daft – a few years ago the tele, video, computer and stuff plugged into the mains, my sockets are all full of 12v or 6v transformers for the very same items.

A12v car battery can be used as a back-up if there is a power failure, and this can be topped up by wind turbines or solar like in a caravan. if you are not in your batteries are being charged for free for when you get home, if you use too much then the mains charges the batteries.

Or am I being too simple here?

Trevor

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

So, model engineers consume lots of stuff to the detriment of the environment and how does this equate to the stories about visiting scrap yards and using all sorts of recycled stuff ?

Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 24/01/2014 13:09:37:

So, model engineers consume lots of stuff to the detriment of the environment and how does this equate to the stories about visiting scrap yards and using all sorts of recycled stuff ?

Clive

.

Clive,

As ever … It would depend upon which Bean-Counter was counting which beans, for whose agenda.

MichaelG.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Posted by John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:04:03:

Playing Devil's advocate here:

How much pollution and 'wastage' of the planet's resources are we model engineers causing?

Millions of pounds are spent and valuable resources are used each year producing machine tools that are of no use to anyone but us so we can produce stuff merely for our own use and personal satisfaction. We burn coal etc. running our locos, traction engines, etc. again, for our own amusement, and use tons of materials in their construction. Most of what we produce is of no real benefit to the human race and could just be considered an extravagant waste.

John

Edited By John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:06:23

But we don't get out much, do we John.

Think of all the saving in carbon emissions from travelling, apart from ME shows that is.

Gary

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I once read that making a car used much more energy then it ever would use in its lifetime. Sounds reasonable to me. Digging up and transporting etc. uranium for power stations uses a huge amount of energy. Best thing would be special concessions for drivers of old cars, or am I being old fashioned?

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

A look at the processes for Lithium extraction from the land can prove rather enlightening, especially for the fans of some (rechargeable) battery powered things

Edited By V8Eng on 24/01/2014 18:07:44

Edited By V8Eng on 24/01/2014 18:35:48

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by V8Eng on 24/01/2014 18:07:02:

A look at the processes for Lithium extraction from the land can prove rather enlightening, especially for the fans of some (rechargeable) battery powered things

.

But, the Bolivians appear to be onto a winner …

MichaelG.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

But, the Bolivians appear to be onto a winner …

Maybe, but I read this a few years ago.

**LINK**

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

One of the biggest ways to cut the size of your energy footprint is to go vegan. Being vegetarian saves enough carbon to offset having a gas guzzler car.

Neil

<Now THAT ought to spark some debate!>

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Vegans & Vegetarians are fine

… best served with roast potatoes.

MichaelG.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Definitely OT-

Back when people weren't so politically sensitive I got some mileage out of a sort of pun.

When someone said they were a vegan, I would say "Hmm, you're a long way from home."

Often I would get a puzzled look. I would say "well you ARE from planet Vega, aren't you? you did say you were a Vegan…."

Saw a great bumper sticker about PETA last week, PETA are the People for Ethical Treatment of Animals folks who are a powerful political entity in California and New York USA. The sticker had the PETA initials with little text between, saying "People Eating Tasty Animals"

Off now to turn all the lights on and leave my truck idling….. just kidding. My town's carbon footprint is a full tracked down wide trail a few miles long. Stopped being a footprint a while ago.

JD-OT ende

PS Michael G. – don't forget the carrots and onions around the roast with the potatoes!

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 24/01/2014 22:30:19

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well Neil

Whilst carbon might be reduced surely the effect of the gases often produced by such a diet will offset this saving – especially when you consider the energy uselessly expended by nearby folk running for cover!

Norman

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 24/01/2014 22:29:10:

Definitely OT-

Back when people weren't so politically sensitive I got some mileage out of a sort of pun.

When someone said they were a vegan, I would say "Hmm, you're a long way from home."

Often I would get a puzzled look. I would say "well you ARE from planet Vega, aren't you? you did say you were a Vegan…."

Saw a great bumper sticker about PETA last week, PETA are the People for Ethical Treatment of Animals folks who are a powerful political entity in California and New York USA. The sticker had the PETA initials with little text between, saying "People Eating Tasty Animals"

Off now to turn all the lights on and leave my truck idling….. just kidding. My town's carbon footprint is a full tracked down wide trail a few miles long. Stopped being a footprint a while ago.

JD-OT ende

PS Michael G. – don't forget the carrots and onions around the roast with the potatoes!

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 24/01/2014 22:30:19

I think that Vega is a star.. thus..would be planet [sumfin] in the Vega system..

..futher to MichealG..red or white …

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

you are not the only one with CFL lighting issues. We purchased 4 units similar to yours, each with 3 bulbs about 4 years ago for our new kitchen. They looked great and supposedly had a very long life with low energy consumption. Each unit cost £90. In reality bulbs last for about 6 months before burning out – we found out that each bulb costs £12 and had to be ordered specially!!!!! You can't buy the bulbs now anyway so we are left with 8 working bulbs and a dim kitchen.

We need to replace them – can anyone recommend an alternative? The halogen bulbs we had in the past got so hot in the kitchen they left scorch marks on the ceiling and also blow quickly because cooking grease in the air gets deposited on them. The LED lights we tried were just not bright enough and all have a blueish tinge. Seems impossible to get a good solution.

1st world problems – sigh

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Andrew,

You need to look for "Warm White" LEDs. These are typically about 2700 Kelvin, and should be devoid of the blue tinge. [Both of the ranges that I linked earlier are worth a look.]

But … If you have had a cataract operation, you could still get problems with some of even these LEDs. Please send me a PM if you need more detail.

MichaelG.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Posted by John Baguley on 24/01/2014 01:04:03:. We burn coal etc. running our locos, traction engines, etc. again, for our own amusement.

Surely though, that is only releasing the stored Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere that was once already there?

Millions of years ago Carbon Dioxide levels in the atmosphere were far higher than they are today, the planet was covered with vast forests of ferns and trees and lush vegetation.

For millions of years animals roamed the surface of the planet so we can assume that the CO2 levels had little if any detrimental effect on them.

What people tend to forget is that geologically speaking we are still emerging from a Ice age, as defined by the fact that there is still ice on the planet other than at the poles, so the planet is getting warmer whether we like it or not, and it is agreed that emitting the CO2 back into the atmosphere will accelerate that effect.

As you can see from the attached graph **LINK** global CO2 levels do NOT have a direct effect on global temperatures, rather CO2 levels have been dropping on average for the last 4 billion odd years as volcanic activity slowly subsided, but temperature has varied over the same period only starting to drop in the last 35 million years. (notably after the ELE 65 MYA.)

So, considering that the majority of the CO2 has been trapped over many millions of years, and that we are now told that the current use of fossil fuels will only a few more tens of years, why haven't the original levels of global CO2 been realised?

Methinks that the only reason that the powers that be want us to emit less CO2 by use of fossil fuels is that they haven't yet developed a suitable low priced alternative and need the current fuels to last as long as possible.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by Lofty76 on 25/01/2014 11:29:02:

For millions of years animals roamed the surface of the planet so we can assume that the CO2 levels had little if any detrimental effect on them.

What people tend to forget is that geologically speaking we are still emerging from a Ice age,

Over here, we have an issue with Glacial Isostatic Adjustment; the land is still springing back from weight of the last glaciers.

Just something to help you win the odd trivia competition;

John.

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