Hand files for aluminium

[Clive BParticipant @cliveb55652]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a files that are specifically designed for aluminium alloys but haven't had much luck finding one – anybody know of a source in the UK? I'm getting a bit fed up with clogging my normal files up – I'm familiar with using copper pipe, or chalk to mitigate clogging of the file – but I gather that specific files are available. I see that ARC sell "lead float" files but these look a bit coarse to me. Anyone used those on aluminium?

Regards,

Clive

[Clive BParticipant @cliveb55652]

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&source=hp&ei=vcdmW-yUGovEwQKi46agBA&q=dreadnought+file&oq=dreadnought+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.9.0l10.1630.12397.0.19035.12.12.0.0.0.0.124.1137.9j3.12.0..2..0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.12.1130…0i131k1.0.o-SLtSBxUVg

 

Use 'dreadnought' files like this for main shaping/ finishing but use papers quite quickly as the finer files don't seem happy on ally…..make sure you are not allergic to ally dust like me!……few people apparently are and it's NOT nice!

 

EDIT;  Remember that you can also do much good work on many of the ally aloys by careful hammering…….polish the hammer face first and use light repetative strikes.   I have been very successful with this on vintage car parts…work steadily and thoughtfully and it's good..very cathartic too!

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 05/08/2018 10:59:26

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I do not know of any and have never come across any.

In one of his books, Guy Lautard suggests keeping files permanently in cutting/tapping oil and re- dipping regularly. That way pins will never stick to the teeth. Others suggest chalking the file. I think both work, but I dislike the chalking idea, rubbing a file on rock strikes me as a good way to blunt it. And dipping the file in oil is messy.

Regards,

Richard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Good old ARC to the rescue again with these. For finer work the standard files work OK on aluminium when well chalked to stop them clogging and pinning.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have had excellent results using very coarse files which are used to trim down lead loaded repairs on car bodies (old fashioned I know fillers are now used for this purpose!)

The files shown in the Arc catalogue are quite fine compared with the files I have used for lead. I am afraid I don't know the name of the very coarse files that I use for lead loading. I am sure the ARC files will perform well on aluminium. For a final finish, then use an ordinary fine file and if this isn't a good enough finish, then wrap some very fine wet and dry around the file and finish that way.

Andrew.

[Dennis DParticipant @dennisd]

When I was an apprentice the very coarse files were known as "bast**d files" . Mind you this was nearly 60 years ago when we were allowed to call them that. Don't know what the PC name would be now.

[Alistair Robertson 1Participant @alistairrobertson1]

Many years ago I was installing some equipment at a company that made some sort of military items. (they couldn't tell me what it was for, offiial secrets etc.)

They had aluminium castings of various sizes and the had to fit in to other bits very precisely. They used hand files unlike anything I had ever seen or seen since. They didn't have conventional file sort of teeth, more like a diamond file but sort of squeezed out of the file body. They had a range of them from about 18 inches long down to about 2 inches. They removed metal superbly and never clogged up like a conventional file. They said they had different grades for different grades of aluminium and the correct type had to be used.

I asked if they had any to spare as I thought they were brilliant but they said that I would need a far higher level of security clearance before I could even apply for one!!

There did not appear to have a makers name on them and I have never seem anything even remotely similar in 50 years of engineering.

Anybody used or seen anything similar?

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

The lead loading files are not bastard files as far as I know. The ones I have are very different. They have cutting edges at right angles to the files length. There are cutting edges maybe 5 or 6 to the inch. The height from bottom to cutting edge is about 1/8".

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

These are the bodywork files and the various others from bastard engineering files to the specialist soft metal files, they also do a specific aluminium one but ARC don't keep that

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Dennis D on 05/08/2018 12:34:16:

When I was an apprentice the very coarse files were known as "bast**d files" . Mind you this was nearly 60 years ago when we were allowed to call them that. Don't know what the PC name would be now.

It's 'bastard file'.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

And single cut files work better for aluminium than double cut ones.

Neil

[Geoff GParticipant @geoffg]

Back in the mists of time, I attended model engineering classes at the local college and on the tool racks there were dreadnought files. Nine teeth per inch, single cut, curved across the width of the file; good at removing large amounts of metal and not easy to clog. They are still available in a range of sizes, either flat or half round. Search "dreadnought files" – plenty of suppliers.

Geoff

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

One of the alternatives to Dreadnought files are called 'Millenicut'. I have not bought any for some time, so they may have disappeared like fax machines and customer service.

Cheers, Tim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That will be the "Milled" cut files I linked to above

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

When I was an aircraft apprentice at Vickers Weybridge, we made extensive use of files like these. If using them, do use a file handle, and wrap masking tape around the opposite end because if you slip, you will leave multiple cuts on your fingers / thumb.
**LINK**
BobH

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

As far as I can make out, Dreadnought files have have curved teeth and Millenicut files have straight teeth. Both seem to be available **LINK** There was also the Aven (then Sandvik?) Trimatool. Doesn't look like these are available anymore though.

Rod

Edit:  although it does look like Tome do something similar according to Jason's link

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 05/08/2018 16:51:36

[JonParticipant @jon]

If you are removing a fair bit of aluminium at least 1/2" wide or more the dreadnoughts your best bet.

If only a couple of mm to remove a second cut and bastard will do the job.

Millenicut will clog just as much as anything and not cut as good.

Nothing will stop aluminums clogging get used to it. Remedy is learning and feeling for whats happening with each swing to dislodge.

Richard i would avoid anything a person says who says keep files in cutting fluid!
It wont cut.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

The advantage of Millenicut files is that they can't leave scratch marks like both Dreadnought or Bastard files as the teeth aren't serrated although there was a cross between Millenicut and bastard where 4 teeth were straight cut (no serrations on the tooth) followed by a a single tooth with serrations. The files were much like a flat broach with no progression on the size of the teeth. When an aluminium aircraft component was hand made, it had to be filed to shape without the use of emery cloth. Emery was seen to leave micro scratches with embedded grit which could be the seat of a fracture. Happy days!

 

Edited By Speedy Builder5 on 05/08/2018 19:24:52

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 05/08/2018 16:46:43:

As far as I can make out, Dreadnought files have have curved teeth and Millenicut files have straight teeth. Both seem to be available **LINK** There was also the Aven (then Sandvik?) Trimatool. Doesn't look like these are available anymore though.

I have a millenicut and the teeth are curved.

The Tome Fiera 'lathe files' are single cut with straight teeth.

The advantage with single cut files is they are MUCH easier to clean if aluminium builds up on them

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 05/08/2018 21:22:09

[Anonymous]

I use a Surform rasp, prefer the 10" flat handle type though you can use the wood plane type handle ones. Shaves the alloy quickly leaving a decent surface and doesn't clog, replaceable blades though my current blade is some years old and had a fair bit of use on alloy.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Note:- Bastard files are between coarse files and second cut files. Bastard files are fairly rare these days. Coarse files are an endangered species.

[Clive BParticipant @cliveb55652]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. The Millenicut files sound as if they will do the job. I see that they are available with straight or curved teeth – what would be the advantages of one versus the other?

The files that initially sparked my interest were by Nicholson – see **LINK** which are double cut however these don't seem to be readily available in the UK.

Clive

[Bob MurrayParticipant @bobmurray]

The curved teeth don't seem to clog as much, and the filed surface is somewhat smoother.

Bob

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 05/08/2018 16:46:43:

…There was also the Aven (then Sandvik?) Trimatool. Doesn't look like these are available anymore though…

Pferd car body files look like they function in much the same way as a Trimatool, although the option to flip the handle from plane to file format is missing http://www.carbodyfiles.co.uk/carbodyfiles/Car_Body_Files.html

(so that is how to show the address in a link)

Must admit I had never thought of using my Dad's old Trimatool on metal, although I much prefer it to using a rasp on the brown stuff as there is far less work to finish.

Brian

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