Had Doubts About Far Eastern Quality?

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

If you ever had any doubts about far eastern quality you should watch this:-

Personally, I have never had a problem with far eastern products because they have always done what they say on the tin for me, Taiwanese Vertex accessories and cheap Chinese San Ou chucks in particular, but I know some people will never accept this over mostly non-existent or, if they do still exist, eye-wateringly expensive British products. (And yes, I accept the video is only of one manufacturer but you don’t capture the world’s machine tool market with poor quality products so I think other companies will be operating to a similar standard).

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

It’s good to know that my 3way metal worker (roll, shear and bend) now has properly machined castings.

 

 

 

Whoops , no still the same.

yours disappointed etc

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

As said many times before, the far eastern manufacturers will produce any level of quality you want. The cost is directly related.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

As long as you don’t try to use thicker material than recommended, I find my 3 way tool to be adequate for my needs, Certainly good value for what I paid for it.

As for Sanou chucks, they are simply excellent. No idea how they do it for the money!

Andrew.

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

As long as you don’t try to use thicker material than recommended, I find my 3 way tool to be adequate for my needs, Certainly good value for what I paid for it.

As for Sanou chucks, they are simply excellent. No idea how they do it for the money!

Andrew.

Pay the workers a pittance in all probability.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I couldn’t find a Price List, but here’s the brief catalogue for Sun Master manual lathes:

https://www.sunmaster-cnc.com/e-catalog/download.php?get=pdf/sunmaster-catalog-manual-lathe.pdf

Which of the U.K. box-shifters will be the first to offer these?
… and would anyone here be able to justify the cost ?

Those are the relevant questions

MichaelG.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I wish I could say “I am impressed” but they are nothing out of the ordinary. A slick video means very little. Looking at their catalogue they seem too large for the hobby and any potential education markets. I guess that this would require either a new distribution network or one of the present importers investing money.

As far as I am concerned the real test would be the resale value in 10 to 15 years time.

By the way the company is Taiwanese (according to the catalogue).

A cynical JA

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Bosun,

I am well aware of the pay and conditions in China. I have visited a few factories and I am appalled at the working conditions and downright dangerous conditions, that apply in the average Chinese factory. A lot of Chinese hobby stuff is hardly brilliant. Sanou chucks seem to be far better than you could expect for the price, I have a couple and I cannot figure out where any shortcuts are being taken to achieve the price. I am sure someone will come along and point out the defects or say I have just been lucky.

Andrew.

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Andrew

I have never travelled to the Far East, or handled a Sanou chuck, so I ask this from a position of total ignorance:

Is there any evidence of the Sanou chucks being subject to manual fettling, or are they [as I suspect] just assembled from precise parts churned-out by good CNC tools.

It is quite obvious from [just for example] the internal detailing of an Apple iPad, that the less human intervention the better !

MichaelG.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Ketan did write a post about Sanou chucks HERE

I thought he’d also posted a video of a factory visit to somewhere else in China previously, but with forum’s current limits to the first page of searches I’m struggling to find it

Bill

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Michael,

There are no signs of any hand fettling and I would agree that CNC manufacture has been used to produce the components. I have used both the 3 jaw and 4 jaw regularly and have stripped, cleaned and reoiled them . Again no sign of fettling.

I have no difficulty in believing that Chinese manufacturing can be both top notch and abysmal. The quality being reflected in the price. This is why I have difficulty in understanding Sanou’s pricing structure. They could sell their chucks for a much higher price on a quality basis. Guess I must be missing something.

Andrew.

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

As long as you don’t try to use thicker material than recommended, I find my 3 way tool to be adequate for my needs, Certainly good value for what I paid for it.

As for Sanou chucks, they are simply excellent. No idea how they do it for the money!

Andrew.

Hi Andrew

I have to admit that given the state of mine I have miss-used it by rolling a 4″ wide lump of 3mm steel to 6″ dia. I needed to heavily fudge it to work and the gears don’t mesh at that thickness.

The shear blade doesn’t work and the bender won’t align either what ever the gauge of material.

Sanou chucks are an odd one, Pre Vevor they were cheap and good, at £80 odd? for a 4″ then they vanished from Ebay, but the pattern numbers remained sold by new kid Vevor without a name for £40. Now Sanou are back on ebay @ £139 for a 4″

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Andrew

… I know it’s a strange concept in this wicked world, but I wonder if Sanou has simply chosen to make an honest, reasonable, mark-up on its cost of production.

MichaelG.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hello Dave,

Not sure how to deal with your comments. It must be either “I have been lucky and have a good one” or “you are unlucky and got the rubbish”.

I don’t think that these tools are a particularly good advert for the genre. my example works but it is hardly brilliant. Mine came second hand and obviously had not had much use. However I am not grumbling because to do any of the functions that it is designed for, in any other way, would involve a lot more hassle.

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have just read Ketan’s comments on Sanou chucks. Interesting conclusions, in that Sanou sell chucks of varying grades, presumably with various price tags.

I have only limited experience with my two Sanou chucks, however I have come across quite a few comments from people here and the US, with equally favourable comments on their quality. I have yet to hear anything bad about these chucks. Usually there are many people who relish knocking hobby Chinese products.

Andrew.

 

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Quite often, what used to be called ‘dumping’ in the 1970s is the reason for very low costs. ie, manufacturers  clearing stock, or short term runs moved on at below cost just to keep going between contracts. Easier to do now with the online market places.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

IF the manufactuing tools and quality control are good enough, it should be possible to assemble any unit from a pile of parts, and it will function satisfactorily.

I think that this started with Eli Whitney making guns in USA, and the concept spread to moving production lines, a la Henry Ford.

(I spent many years of life in just such an environment. And the better we were, the fewer complaints came back from the field; except from those who abused the product by running without oil or coolant!)

In statistical terms, often the aim is to have all of the product fall within two standard deviations of the mean. Getting it within three makes for more rejects, but a higher quality and more consistent product.

We may not realise it, but rely on these techniques with almost everything that we buy.

But a lttle careful fine tuning can make a woirld of difference to the performance of a product.

Whilst I will not condone putright poor quality, as hobbyists, the time that we spend deburring, and making fine adjustments brings benefits that would have have cost us a lot more had they been made at the fcatory.

How mnay of us are sufficiently skilled as fitters to be able to get within 0.005″ with a hammer and chisel?

(Let alone in a short space of time)

The advent of electronic control of engines and production processes has decreased the need for fine  tuning.

Lacking the close electronic control of the processes, greatr resort has to be made to manual intervention. And this involves labour and time. (Which is one of the reasons why a Rolls Royce is more expensive than a small economy car. But for most of the time, is the difference really noticeable? )

At 70 mph a Toyota Aygo covers the ground just as quickly as a Rolls Royce, although in less luxury, and takes more time to get to 70 mph, but less fuel.

If you MUST have a toolroom quality lathe, you buy one; but it will cost more, and last far longer than a bottom of the range hobby machine.

You pays your money (if you have it) and takes your choice.

Howard

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It’s the luck of the draw, I don’t care for four jaw scroll chucks, but seeing a Vevor 160mm going at just over half the usual price simply because the box was damaged, I grabbed it. It is on the Smart& Brown model A at the moment, but can also go on the Atlas and today I was making some spacers for the slitting saw arbor and tried out turning a 3 inch length of aluminium to about 0.78″ and turned it round to do the other end. There is a mismatch, about 0.0005″ tir, but not bad for a cheap chuck.

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