Had Another Go

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

This took me about an hour and a half, including trying unsuccessfully to turn it into a dimensioned drawing.

I’ve forgotten how, and could not work out “Left”, “Right”, “Top” etc. from the little coloured buttons, so ended up with a mess.  Helped by the 3D image showing the planes confusingly all mixed up as usual with me.

I’ve no idea where that odd little cylinder in the corner came from, but I can’t delete it because I’d not spotted it in time to prevent it becoming part of the first extrusion. It helps prevent making a drawing version. The flange is only 3″ diameter but the little cylinder makes the view hog about half the available area of an A4 sheet already restricted by all that default margin clutter.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Open the sketch you used to draw the round plate and see if there is a circle in the position where the cylinder is (it’s probably the magenta circle you can see at the end of the cylinder). if so, delete it and the cylinder will be gone (you might have to delete the reference to it in the extrusion editor/property page, or whatever they call it in the program you’re using).

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just right click the red circle at the base of that cylinder, select edit and then when the sketch comes up left click that circle again and press delete or use the trim tool to remove it.

If in doubt what elevations you want click them all and then delete the ones you don’t want from the 2D drawing

First screen that come sup when you start a 2D drawing has the option to click “blank sheet” rather than template and it will remember that for future 2D drawings.

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Nigel …… well done !!!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thankyou!

I’ve managed to clear that rogue cylinder, still without knowing how I managed to put it there. A sort of CAD typo!

Now then, will an Alibre Drawing (distinct from the model) act like an ordinary image file…?

No, it needs converting to one.

 

 

[Mark EasingwoodParticipant @markeasingwood33578]

Well done for giving Alibre another go.

I don’t find the drawing view icons very intuative either, so I do as Jason suggests and select more views than I need, then delete the ones I don’t from the drawing.

You can add any missing views using this button.

 

Once you have saved your drawing, you can export it as a PDF file. A PDF can easily be opened without having to wait for Alibre to open, and can be opened on a device which does not have Alibre installed. It is also easy to zoom in on a PDF, and to print it if required.

PDF files are vector based, so zooming in does not pixelate the lines as a JPEG does.

Snip or screenshot if you want to post it on here.

Mark.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you Mark.

My first try at the drawing fell over due to that stray object in the corner wrecking the proportions of the views’ frames; but I did not realise that immediately. I thought I’d forgotten the method.

I generally use .jpg or .bmp files, and have been shy of .pdf files due to untoward experiences with them over the years, but I’ll bear your suggestion in mind. I didn’t know you can use the format like that. I thought it was primarily an Internet standard.

The little image in the corner was from an earlier attempt but in TurboCAD (the polygonal facetting is characteristic of that system’s basic view forms), and is not true to scale due to a drawing error. I plonked it on there only for completeness but first encountered that practice of an explanatory 3D image some 10 or 12 years ago at work, and later on the Hemingway Kits drawings. If you’ve ever used those kits you will know the parts drawings are orthographic with a 3D rendering in the corner, and accompanied by a sheet showing the complete project as a rendered 3D assembly.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Your unwanted cylinder was probably just a bit of mouse trouble, if you have the circle tool selected and then don’t quite hold both buttons down to move th epart about you can end up creating a circle, square or whatever tool you have active at the time.

I output the drawings as PDFs, once you get more than one drawing to an engien you can then keep them all as one pdf file if you create a multi page Alibre drawing which is quick to open and you can just scroll up and down to look at various sheets rather than open files for each page. Image below shows the pages down the side which I have given a name to so they are easy to locate if I need to revise one.

 

Another way to get an image if that is how you store them is File – Export – Image files. This is a slightly better resolution than the usual snip.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Now here’s a genuinely inspiring and encouraging thread – well done, Nigel.

 

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Very well done Nigel I hope 2025 brings you more success with 3d Cad.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel,

You can add an isometric view in the Alibre 2D drawing – even setting it to ‘shaded’ representation if you wish.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hurrah!   A few observations though!

I’ve noted several times that Nigel tends to plough on regardless, allowing small problems to cause endless trouble, instead of stopping to fix them.   The extra object ringed in red bottom right is an example:

The cause was probably simple finger or mouse trouble, and this type of error isn’t unusual.   Fixing them is TOP PRIORITY, and learning how to is an important basic skill.  As Nigel ably describes, carrying on with this type of error in a model causes endless bother in multiple ways.  In this case Alibre’s 2D dimensioned drawing tool can’t ignore it.    My advice, learning how to mend boo-boos is far more important than rushing to more advanced stuff like generating 2D plans.   If the underlying model is sound CAD will generate 2D projections in a jiffy, whilst a bent model will misbehave.

Re mice, I’ve just upgraded mine because the old one doesn’t perform reliably with SolidEdge, despite being a good make.   Requires a mouse-mat, and although OK for ordinary work,  SE shows it misses steps.   Causes grief by being not quite “good enough”.   Driving CAD with a wonky mouse is asking for trouble!  The replacement is much better.

I’m wondering if Nigel’s concern with planes and which way is up is a hangover from his 2D drawing or TurboCAD experience?  Could be a self-inflicted obstacle!

As there is no ‘up’, a 3D object can be modelled in any orientation.   So I start in whatever plane seems reasonable and go from there, most objects building on faces.   I’d start Nigel’s cylinder head centred on the origin of plane XY as he has done, but thereafter, all the operations are applied to faces, not planes.

I use planes in more advanced circumstances.  For most ordinary work, they don’t matter much because CAD allows parts to be viewed from any angle, and assembled relative faces and axes on other parts, not planes.   2D drawings can also be rendered in any orientation.  Just a gut feel, but maybe Nigel is trying to manage planes manually, when that’s not a good idea.   I’m guessing, so apologies to Nigel if I’m wrong.

Self-teaching oneself a complex subject is super-difficult.  A mentor would spot instantly if Nigel is trying to bend Alibre to his will, rather than letting the tool do the work.

Back to bed for me – sick as a dog!

🙁

Dave

 

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although not critical I tend to try and position the 3D parts so that they are orientated as they will be on the finished engine, so on something like Nigel’s cover would have used the ZX plane to draw the first circle and several of the other features not the surfaces.

My usual method is that XY plane is looking along at one end of the crankshaft, YZ at the side of the crankshaft and ZX looking at the top. All parts fall into one of those three views/elevations just like on a bit of paper.

The main reason I do it like this is when looking at the file with all the parts in you can see them more easily, this is just a small engine with a couple of lines of parts but when yyou have  a screen full it make slocating them easier

Having the individual parts the right way up also helps when it comes to assembly, something Nigel says he has not grasped yet. It’s a few less clicks of the mouse if the part is the right way up and can be placed approx in the right position straight away before you add the actual constraints.

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Speedy recovery, Dave!

 

Thank you for the various encouraging remarks.

I generally start an Alibre drawing on the XY plane, so Z is going into the screen, but I can see now that might not be a good idea if the part has to meet others in particular orientations.

This is not trying to manipulate the planes manually, nor a hangover from TurboCAD or manual drawing, but probably from years of seeing XY in all sorts of situations as flat on the floor and Z as altitude.

Would a quick paper-&-pencil to plan the order of drawing each part and its orientation, help? It doesn’t need details, just very basic, even stylised outlines.

.

When copying an Alibre drawing as “exported” I generally do use the .jpg format. I didn’t know you could file them as pages in a .pdf document, though. I’ll look at doing that.

First though I need sort out the filing system on this PC, using WIN-11. For some reason it seems a lot rougher than in any prior version of Windows since W5, even 3.1. So trying to select any given file, or discover where it’s gone, can be a right pain. I think it might be a side-effect of Microsoft trying to pile all your files into its “OneDrive” server.

Another effect is that I’ve not been able to create screen short-cuts to applications. To open anything, be it Alibre, Excel or Word, I need open any data file in it. That was never necessary in any previous WIN version.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

You shouldn’t need to be accessing Applications by digging around the roots of the tree in W11 – it was definitely designed to be ‘hands-off’ in that sense and at some point will make it’s resentment felt.

First port of call for finding anything in the version I am using is to click the blue window-pane in the taskbar (the Start Menu), the very first line of the box that pops up asks if you’d like to search for apps, settings, and documents – starting to type the title of any document quickly throws up a list of matches, most recent first..

On the same box is a list of App(lication)s, and an offer to view all Apps – from the whole list, thus accessed, right click the Application you want, to pin it to this Start Menu, or, by pressing the ‘more’ button, pin it to the taskbar (usually at the bottom of the screen)

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

I wonder if Nigel has inadvertently selected the second (empty) desktop that Win 11 makes very easy to access.

I say that because Atom3D adds a desktop shortcut at installation unless the user deselects that.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Only three attempts to make the “Log in” work this time… This is not a problem on any other site.

I’d also like the cursor keys to work, and that is common across web-sites.

 

Thankyou – yes, I’ve now managed to put links to Excel and Word on the tool-bar. These are in MS Office for XP Pro., which I installed from a CD (via an external drive), and I might missed any shortcut offers.

Alibre, Norton and TomTom shortcuts are all there, from their own installing.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Why do you log out?

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

…

 

The main reason I do it like this is when looking at the file with all the parts in you can see them more easily, this is just a small engine with a couple of lines of parts but when yyou have  a screen full it make slocating them easier

Having the individual parts the right way up also helps when it comes to assembly, something Nigel says he has not grasped yet. It’s a few less clicks of the mouse if the part is the right way up and can be placed approx in the right position straight away before you add the actual constraints.

 

I’m going try that in SolidEdge!  Should oil the wheels.

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

Why do you log out?

When I log in on my phone it logs me out on the PC, but I never have any difficulty logging back in, first time every time

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

You can print directly to PDF in the Drawing workspace by using the PDF button , highlighted by the RED square in this snip (ignore the purple highlight as this is a snip from the image in an earlier post):-

 

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Thats strange I have a phone/tablet/ laptop and desktop all logged on.!!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Bernard –

I log out and come back in to try to make the wretched thing work. It has two failure modes, proven by the appearance or absence of the contributions box.

1) The box appears greyed-out.

2) More commonly, it does not appear at all.

 

……

 

I thought I had quite a number of Alibre drawings, but I was wrong. I might have lost some in that computer crash but more likely I had simply not saved many.

Despite much “housekeeping”, the files still seem to occupy separate places in scrappy directories hard to control. I’m tempted to use only extension drives to stop MS messing around. At one point up popped one of my photographs – and no, I do not want and will not install that blasted “Copilot” cr+p. Microsoft, leave off, will you?)

 

Anyway I tried again, this time with one of the crossheads already made from a pair of castings I had bought from the waifs-and-strays box on M.J. Engineering’s exhibition stand.

I was careful to think what plane to draw it in, too, so it points the right way, but still had to turn it the right way up at the end.

Then had to start again half-way through because it was impossible to create the internal cavity the way I was drawing it.

The drawing is slightly simplified. The 4 small holes are tapped, as is the lower end of the hole for the piston rod. I have omitted the cover-plate and gudgeon-pin, and various fillets and chamfers.

Also, this being for a vertical engine, I have cut oil-channels down the two sloping faces to carry oil scraped from the guide-bars to holes down to the small-end. I cannot draw those.

The drawing I derived is a mess so I did not pursue it far. It revealed I’d made the guide surfaces slightly too far apart, probably by arithmetical error. Correcting the model (not reflected in the drawing) was a right game, too, taking well over half an hour of repeated attempts.

The entire thing took at least six hours, with lots of geometrical constructions and multiple attempts at various points. I realised an expert would draw it six minutes – complete with the oil-ways and screw-threads.

All those construction lines and upside-down co-ordinate indicator show how awkward this was.

.

That done, I used that cylinder-cover to see what I could remember about Assemblies, one of the hardest areas of Alibre. The two copies of the same Part were on the same plane, XY, but displaced axially, and of course one needed rotating so the flats faced each other. When after many fruitless attempts, one turned itself on edge and melted into the other, I gave up. Assembly-drawings are for the experts who’d have done that in six seconds.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

looks like you started sketching on the YZ plane and extruded it to one side. had you selected “mid plane” it would have made subsequent work a lot easier. There was no nee dto start again you should have gone back and altered what you had and then not needed to add the aditional plane to sketch the internal cavity on.

Not sure if you were assembling the two covers to the cylinder if so you could have constrained the stud holes which will then have rotated the cover to the correct position. If not you can insert just the one and then do a mirror.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel,  in an assembly it is important to fix the first / most important part in space before trying to relate other parts to it.  This avoids ‘surprise’ re-orientations of parts.

If and when a part flips or otherwise goes to the wrong place, just use the undo function if you aren’t confident to reverse whatever you did that went wrong.

Save the assembly file, even if it has gone wrong – it will be salvageable.

[Author]

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