Gripping Drills in Chucks

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

I am seeking some help with problems of drills slipping in chucks.

This seems to have taken on something of nightmare proportions. Whatever chuck and drill combo I choose the drill always seems to slip.

I have used both keyed and keyless chuck but the problem is always the same.

Drill sizes vary between 2mm and 10 mm, now and reqround. I am meticulous about cleaning drill shanks.

I can accept that I am no longer strong enough to tighten keyless type but I don't remember having this problem in the past.

Any suggestions are most welcome.

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Maybe the old hands aint what they were

A small metal tube on the end of the chuck key would give you more leverage for less effort

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I had similar problems ,getting too old, I pressed out handles on a couple of jacobs chuck keys and made longer handles from silver steel,this way you do not have to keep looking for the piece of tube. If you cannot tighten or release a keyless chuck ,the rubber strap wrench with plastic handle sold at B & Q as a Boa does the job without damaging the knurling on the chuck. Another ,tip Jacobs chucks can be dismantled on a press ,after cleaning the internals and lubricating they work a lot better,Google jacobs chucks and there is a web site show how to dismantle them . It is noticeable that chucks used horizontally ie in the lathe get far stiffer with use than when used solely in a drilling machine ,it must be due to the soluble getting in the works. I now tend to store loose chucks morse taper up so that the fluid drains out .

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Not keen myself on over extending tommy bars…first try tightening in all three holes…but sure you have tried that..
…maybe collet chuck is a possibility. .

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

Do not know how these are named in english (drills with 6 sided shaft?) or in what sizes you can get them, but they will not slip in dril chucks. Niko.

http://www.toolstation.nl/shop/Gereedschap+accessoires/Speciale+boren/Borenset+met+zeskantschacht+7+delig/d80/sd1400/p42721

Edited By speelwerk on 02/06/2014 21:35:34

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I''ve found cleaning and oiling the chucks can make a surprising difference.

Neil

[oldveloParticipant @oldvelo]

Hi Jerry

An old mentor of mine insisted that the best way to tighten any three jaw chuck be it on a lathe or drilling machine

was to

"tighten it using all four holes on a three jaw chuck".

This will grip so tight that then it will need the extension on the key to loosen it.

Swinging on an extended chuck key in one hole only will damage the scroll.

A keyless chuck can be pulled up tight with a strap wrench that is used for removing oil filters a gentle nudge is all that is required no massive force.

Eric

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

for the key less chuck the yellow"gripper type gloves" are worth it. They're a mesh glove with a yellow( on all the ones I've seen) soft rubber net overlayed on them. Protects your hands a grip like blazes.

Ian

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

I've found that on occasion too slow a rpm causes the bits to catch and slip i.e. increase the drill speed and see what transpires.

Steve

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

I'm overwhelmed by the response. Lots of suggestions, some I have already tried, but each one contains a gem or two and I will have to work through my technique (again).

I'll use them as a check list, and tick off each one as its done, the memory is not what it used to be.

Although I try to clean my chucks after each job I may not have removed all the oil from the gripping face of the jaws.

Thank you to everyone.

Jerry

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

This works best when the chuck is fixed in a machine…..

For a Jacobs Chick Try two keys at the same time If you have them, It negates a lot of the internal friction. and you are doubling the force without straining the keys or the chuck gear ring.

Also check if the drill is correctly ground, Is there too much relief causing it to dig in with a heavy chip?

Regards
John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Got a mate who cures the problem of slipping drills, he gets the angle grinder, and grinds three flats on the drill shank, its not too bad in the portable electric drill, but it can be a bit of a problem in the drill press. Most of the drilling is in RSJ about three to six MM thick. Ian S C

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Seems to ring a bell that a slipping chuck I has was caused by too much cutting fluid going every where so a flush out with something like carb cleaner might be worth while.

Thinking about it, I’ve never oiled a drill chuck but I would imagine something very light like Duck Oil would be the one to use.

W.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Drill bits with 3 flats can be bought and are very good. Hex. shank drill bits are available in the smaller sizes and are useful in battery drills. The chuck key can be extended and a suitable sized wheel soldered on the end, this is good for weak fingers.For larger bits- put in 3 jaw, with grinder in toolpost, Grind 3 flats by indexing off the jaws. Only small flats are needed and will be pretty accurate.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> I've never oiled a drill chuck but I would imagine something very light like Duck Oil would be the one to use.

3 in 1 seems to do the job here,. You need it to flow down between the ring gear and the body of the chuck, but a bit on the jaw slides does less harm than good.

Neil

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Hi Neil.

I’ll give them a go – especially my ‘nice’ Albreicht one which is too expensive to replace.

I do my lathe chucks yearly whether they need it or not – last time I used that GT stuff you can get in Halfords which contains PTFE which sounds like it should be ideal.

W.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Read this before adding lube to your keyless chuck !

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i was doing some taper reaming and reaming and tapping of my 5"g terrier boiler this eve for boiler bush fittings and found the tightening up of each of the 3 chuck points very useful when using the various bits in the jacobs chuck off my lathe… this discussion was therefore very timely and helpful!

cheers,

julian

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Hi Jerry,

Yes I can well understand your point of maybe loosing some hand strength. Sooner or later were all going to go through this. And even the top quality Albrecht chucks will also sooner or later need parts or a bit of maintenance. But to also state a bit of the obvious, the general rule is the cheaper your chucks are then the less precision there built to. That alone makes them far less efficient at transfering the energy into tightening the jaws. Years ago I had a cheap Black and Decker hand drill that would not hold any drill without slipping no matter how much I tried to get it tight. I finally just scrapped the whole drill since it wasn't built to a high enough standard to deserve replacing the chuck. But you haven't said how old or what quality your chucks are.

You did mention a keyless, so even if it was a brand new Albrecht and your hands just aren't strong enough now to properly tighten it, you could if you were a bit careful use a good quality strap wrench on the body. And by good quality I mean one that comes with the proper leather strap. That would provide the most bite and protection. And just like adding a snipe to a chuck key, you would have to be a bit careful about going the wrong way and over tightening. But any of us should be able to estimate how much to tighten a chuck just by feel. It's also been my experience that once a drill has spun in a chuck it's scrap. It's even more likely to spin again for some reason. And the burr raised plus the displaced metal on the drills shank is reason enough to throw it away. They can't be fixed with the equipment most of us own. So for what good quality drills cost today, it's well worth the cost to buy very good quality chucks, or rebuild the worn good quality chucks you might already have.

I doubt it, but just to double check and make sure. You aren't trying to use any solid carbide drills are you? They can and will tend to slip in the normal chuck jaws. They use diamond plating on chuck jaws that are designed for carbide drills to give them some grip. I still have most of my hand strength, and it's a lot slower method. But when I want a very very accurate location and I don't want the drill to wander, I use an ER collet to hold the drill. It's a vastly noticeable improvement, and far more rigid way to hold a drill even comparing it against an Albrecht. Something like that might be worth considering depending on what you have your current drill chucks mounted to. Most drills would break long before they ever slipped in a properly tightened ER collet.

Pete

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

Hi Peter, and everyone who has contributed to this thread,

I'm approaching retirement age +5. I am sure I no longer have the strength in my hands that I did 5 yrs ago. When I say I have tried lots of potential solutions I think I had tried almost everything that has been suggested above, including buying a brand new Albrecht 1-10 mm.

Now I've gone through a more thorough series of checks and discovered that I have made mistakes that I would not have made in the past.

I found I need to –

1. Forget that my time on this earth is finite,

2. Work carefully,

3. Clean all the mating surfaces.

4. Use much higher rotating speeds, I've gone from 70 rpm with a 6mm drill to 200rpm.

Now I am much more confident!

The first item has possibly been the most significant. It affects all the others!

Thanks to you all.

Jerry

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Jerry,

I'm sure you understand it's more than tough to properly sort out a problem like this without being face to face and putting your hands on it. So for whatever it's worth you have my sincere sympathy. We all know mistakes and factory defects can happen with even the very best manufacturer's today. There's no doubt Albrecht can and does produce the odd factory dud. But for your problems right now, I think it's fairly safe to rule out your Albrecht chuck. And since it's at least fairly new, and you've used the tightening methods we've suggested, then your looking either at a contamination issue, or the actual quality of the drills your using. Something has obviously and drastically changed, At one time as you've said you didn't have any problems. So……………………..what have you changed that might produce this problem. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I'm suspecting the drills themselves. There no different than anything else. Defects and mistakes happen. But again something has changed to produce this problem. A cutting oil change maybe? I just don't know and can't suggest any other logical reasons.

Pete

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

With drills now coming from all sorts of countries I have found that the new drill shanks tend to be a lot harder than the older English made drills,and this affects the grip of the chuckjaws on the drill,I also have a selection of solid carbide drills and these will slip a lot easier than an old Dormer drill,and are best used in the mill in a collet chuck,

Why do you need to drill with a 6mm bit at 200 rpm on I assume mild steel this should be a minimum off 500 rpm in black steel and in excess of a thousand for free cutting mild , and yes being well past retirement a longer chuck key makes up for lost strength.

[Rich2502Participant @rich2502]

This is an uber problem for me too, I'm mostly using big powerdrils on mild steel fabrication jobs, all my keyless chucks fell to bits, so I'm back using the keyed ones, I will try using all the key points.

I have a feeling the chuck jaws get polished and don't grip, though.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Drilling fabricated steel is always fraught… Often the hole is in a difficult to hold or reach position, the steel is tough and sometimes tapered on the back (RSJ's). the hole sizes also tend to be large. Drill jams are not uncommon. Once I was using a nice Bosch hand drill on a beam near an upright, The drill jammed and the thing twisted itself so violently that it ripped out of my hand…. Just as well as the handle spun round and hit the upright the body of the drill failed and it twisted itself in half. It self destructed.

And what about the off centre holes that are supposed to mate but don't. The obvious fix (SIC) is to poke the drill through to "make em fit" the result is often a jammed drill. Not withstanding that it is an unsafe practice as engineering design is compromised. The West Gate bridge in Melbourne collapsed with loss of life because of this practice.

Keyless chucks do not like being overloaded, They break, particularly when subjected to shock loads. the self tightening feature does not like being overloaded the ball bearings allow huge forces to build up.

Once at a market I spotted a largish magnetic drill base By largish I mean I have to use both hands to lift it, and better still the stall holder thought it was broken! In fact just a loose wire on the switch that turns on the electromagnet. I got it for scrap value.

This tool has turned drilling big holes in steel plate or a beam a pleasure no more difficult than using the drill press. No more broken drills and sprains when the drill tries to rip itself out of your arms.

These days there are quite compact versions that are easy to lift into position overhead or vertically… Yes they have a safety chain or clamp to hold them onto the work if the (strong) magnetic grip fails. I guess most fabricators will already have one, worth looking into if you have the need.

Regards
John

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