Good bye

[JAParticipant @ja]

GONE. There are far better forums out there. This one just wastes time.

JA

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Shame that people think this forum is a waste of time.

Sure, there can be argument, but that’s the same in many places where people meet up, virtually or in person.

If I do have a gripe it’s about the way some people post responses.

I am a member of a forum in America and I must say that the members do behave much more supportively than on this forum. There are never any criticisms or negative comments about another members work or input. I mentioned this during one conversation and the moderator said oh we could have that kind of rubbish, but we have rules and make sure they are followed. We are not all angels but we try to be supportive and encouraging.

I found that model clubs in this country were very insular and not at all encouraging. The first place I tried spent every meeting arguing about who was in charge, the members or the chairman. Another I visited just wanted me to shift ballast for their railway and jealously guarded their knowledge, wandering off whenever a technical poser was presented. Maybe they simply didn’t know and didn’t want to look daft, or maybe they were afraid of being shot down if they did venture an opinion.

Consequently I work alone now and teach myself by trial and error, books and the odd you tube video. I do sometimes ask for help online but usually get less help that I hoped for.

Perhaps it’s the way engineering is, I don’t know as I’m not an engineer.

But whatever it is, it can turn people off the hobby. If we want to carry the hobby forward we have to be more open and welcoming and a bit less judgemental.

 

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Whatever.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Well, it’s sad that you feel you have to leave, JA, given the amount you have contributed to it over time. I wish you well and hope whatever other fora you find are happier for you.

 

Plasma – you are not the first to raise that point about the attitudes of some people in some clubs, and it occurs in other interests too, not only model-engineering. It is something that clubs themselves should think about seriously, for it takes only one or two members rudeness to make a society seem unwelcoming or even give it a bad name generally.

 

That’s hardly an encouraging comment, Fulmen, to anyone, though downright insults like that sarcastic “whatever” demean only their users, not their victims.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I must admit I regret my previous comment a bit, I mistook him for the other fellow a few months back. But I do dislike this kind of drama. If you don’t like it here, just go. Nobody’s holding you to anything. It’s a big web out there, I’m sure you find another forum better suited to your personality.

[Fulmen]

On Fulmen Said:

I must admit I regret my previous comment a bit, I mistook him for the other fellow a few months back. But I do dislike this kind of drama. If you don’t like it here, just go. Nobody’s holding you to anything. It’s a big web out there, I’m sure you find another forum better suited to your personality.

I agree.

I’ve left a number of forums over the years and only felt the need to make a parting post once. This was due to extreme rudeness from a couple of the members, both American as it happens.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Agree with Fulman above. Don’t know which these other wonderful forums can be. Observing the OP’s avatar I’m guessing he doesn’t like locomotives.
American forum? HSM has a fair few arguments and people who don’t like each other.
Not sure why this got onto supposedly unfriendly clubs again. I’ve visited clubs on 3 continents and always found them friendly and in my own clubs in 40+ years only encountered one obnoxious a-h who left after a rant about the club site loo not being to the standards of the Ritz.
I’ve faded away from a couple of forums when both my computer and I forgot the password. No drama needed.

[Plasma]

On Plasma Said:

Consequently I work alone now and teach myself by trial and error, books and the odd you tube video. I do sometimes ask for help online but usually get less help that I hoped for.

…

But whatever it is, it can turn people off the hobby. If we want to carry the hobby forward we have to be more open and welcoming and a bit less judgemental.

Hi Plasma,

I think this situation and sentiment is a very common one, and I very much include myself in this. I get the impression that there are a lot of ‘loner’ engineers/machinists out there, and maybe the majority are. As such, they never form a clique where problems often arise.

I don’t post frequently and it’s usually to pose a question rather than answer one, and only after I have unsuccessfully searched other avenues. Nonetheless, despite my inability to help due to a lack of knowledge and experience, I hope that my ‘amateur’ posts are eventually helpful to others and not incur the impatience of a more knowledgeable person. So far, I’ve never had problems with rude people here.

 

All the best,

Duff

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think a lot depends on what you want from a forum as to which is better suited to what you want.

To be honest anyone wanting to make models is not that well served by this one if their search turns up MODELenginneer. Just look down the list of the 25 latest replies.

If asked I would send someone with a Loco query to MECH, Traction engine builders are best served by TT and  someone wanting info on stationary steam, IC hot air to either MEM or HMEM or one or two facebook Groups.

If it were to do with old machines or passing time in the tea room then this would be the one for them.

I’m not against reasoned constructive critisisum, do you just say good job and let the poster carry on or do you speak up now and point out a problem and possible remedy before they spend a lot more time on a part only to find their earlier error makes it useless? Just the short or one word reply does not help them.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Since we dont have such clubs in this quaint little country, this has never been a problem. Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?. We all mangle metal alone in our own little caves.

Answers on a postcard please.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I don’t know what country or sort of clubs Larry means, but I find a lot of interest in many of this site’s threads, and in the magazines, even where not directly relevant to my own areas of model-engineering.

Sadly we do seem to be living in increasingly rancorous times in which discussion is more often just slanging-matches. I suspect that’s always been there but the “Hinder-not” makes it easier and more widespread.

Clubs can be difficult, that’s human nature I am afraid, but I hope and believe the difficult ones are a minority, and usually the problem is just a few individuals. Similarly on an internet chat-group.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

…
I’m not against reasoned constructive critisisum, do you just say good job and let the poster carry on or do you speak up now and point out a problem and possible remedy before they spend a lot more time on a part only to find their earlier error makes it useless? Just the short or one word reply does not help them.

I take a harder line on misunderstandings than Jason, and am not popular because of it!   But seems to me that when a member is off course, there’s no value in molly-coddling him, or in perpetuating a mistake broadcast to the world.   Sorry, but engineering quality issues have to be challenged.

Alas, poor humanity, we hate having our shortcomings pointed out!  We dislike learning anything that undermines our power-base, and, as we age, we hate to admit our physical and mental abilities are sagging. I look in the mirror every morning at a tired physical wreck, who distracted by pain, finds it hard to concentrate or enthuse about anything!  What happened, I wonder, to the bright full of fun 10 year old me who was interested in everything, prepared to try anything, and coped so well with learning.    Who is this dull, grey man, terrified of change, and what on earth can I do to keep him amused without causing a conniption?

Well, I try to be polite!  And admit when I’m wrong.

I agree with Jason that short answers are unhelpful, which is unfortunate when so many seem desperate for simplicity, and aren’t curious about how stuff works.  Sadly, engineering is difficult, and not just when meeting challenging new requirements, requiring more than a Super-Adept.  Even basic workshop processes need thought and practice.  Happens I find it easier to make progress by understanding and I like to explore.   Those who  want an easy method they can apply without having to think should look elsewhere!   Remember HL Menken:  ‘ there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.’

One change in the forum for the worse over the last decade is a gradual falling off of helpful answers to traditional  questions.  I guess ill-health is slowly removing the old-school experts who had time to help others.  Their replacements are more likely to know about computers than single-phase motors or brazing with coke!  The hobby is shifting.

I’ve long since decided it’s impossible to keep everyone on the forum happy!   All I can do is to help as best I can, even when that help is unwelcome or misunderstood.    I suggest it’s important for everyone to play the game.  An engineering forum isn’t a good place to seek validation of out-dated ideas, unwise bodges, bad science, ignorance, dangerous designs, prejudice, or wishful thinking.  Criticism of engineering and logic is normal business, not an attack on one’s snowflake ego.   Above all, do not criticise individuals!

Dave

 

 

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

This thread is a perfect illustration of the original post!

Fellow opens the floor and expresses an opinion that this forum is not fulfilling his model engineering interests and he considers it a waste of time and he is off elsewhere.

Last post at time of writing this is some ramble about misunderstandings and the OP (possibly) being misguided – not really sure as the point is not clear and generally unrelated to the previous comments.

Jason had the perfect answer, just look at the stats, the number of tea room posts about renewable energy, effects on climate change, pencil sharpeners etc in relation to those on actual model engineering!  To me that validates the OP opinion very well.

There was a recent survey on here to try and judge current interests, not many replies so an extremely small sample, if this forum is representative of model engineers we can deduce there is not a lot of models being made with manual machine tools and basic hand tools / hand skills.  I don’t actually believe that as other forums tell a different story.  Mystery is why there is such a broad cross section of interests not really focussed on model engineering activities on ‘the’ model engineer forum……….

Paul.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Hi Nigel,

The country in question is Ireland and the clubs to which I refer  are Model Making Clubs, of any kind. By and large, they just dont exist here.

I did not suggest that I found nothing of interest on this forum, far from it !, nor that I found most Members to be un-helpful, again, far from it.

I think Dave [Sod ] may have put his finger on a very important point, when he mentioned the lack of Old School Experts who know how to do things without the need for computers, Cad, Dro,s ect. This is the kind of stuff one needs to know before getting too big for one,s boots. These people are now in short supply and not likely to be replaced anytime soon.

These are just my observations, form day to day. The nearest thing I ever came across were Men,s Sheds, and not too many of those either and they were pretty sad outfits.

One problem seems to be that clubs are formed with good intentions by a group, but as time goes on and things change, the founders are not always willing or keen to change with them, prefering to stay in the past. This does not work and serves only to run the club into the ground, since no young blood is attracted. By the way, I am 86, so not exactly “Young Blood “, but you know what I mean. I do not like Computers, smart Phones, Tablets, Cad, Dro,s ect,ect mostly because I dont fully understand them, but I accept that they are here to stay, so I just make the best of the situation.

I wish the Forum well, and long may it continue, and if someone finds that it no longer suits their needs, well then, just fold your tent and ride away into the sunset, no sweat, no drama.. One can always return and be sure of a welcome.

Best regards to all, the Good, the Bad, and the Rest, like my self, for the New Year.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I am a member of the Home Shop Machinist forum based in the USA as well as this one and find both very good. The HSM is easier to navigate, but that’s just a minor difficulty for me.

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

I frequent around 26 forums every day. Most are good diversions from the daily grind. My opinion (Mine only) is this forum is like a friendly pub where I can duck into for a quick pint and check on the local happenings. I never know what will happen here, usually very civil, but now and then someone gets upset. Usually no big deal and everyone goes back to the matter at hand. I think the forum is very well run.

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