Gluten Intolerance

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Posted by Fulmen on 20/07/2023 22:00:49:

I tried a gluten free beer made from chestnuts once. Guess what it tasted like.

Beer.

If they can do that, then surely they can make edible food without gluten?

For a start, gluten is not a necessary, or indeed particularly desirable ingredient in beer – its presence is a consequence of using gluten bearing grains like barley or wheat to make brewing malt.

On the other hand, gluten is a necessary ingredient in traditional bread making to give the correct texture to the bread.

A quick enquiry of Mr. Google suggests that chestnuts are an ingredient in some Italian beers, and there also is a reference to a gluten-free beer here:

Gluten-Free Chestnut Beer

It would seem that chestnuts contain plenty of starch, but low quantities of the enzymes necessary to convert the starch to sugar, so the above recipe uses amylase to artificially provide this starch conversion. I would imagine the traditional Italian chestnut beers use an addition of normal barley malt to supply saccharification enzymes.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

But barley is both a desirable and a neccessary ingredient in beer or, at least, decent beer.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Posted by Mark Rand on 21/07/2023 23:49:02:

But barley is both a desirable and a neccessary ingredient in beer or, at least, decent beer.

Absolutely. (though malted wheat can be a totally acceptable equivalent – in its own way)

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Thanks Martin, I'll definitely look into those lactase tablets.

Regards Mike

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

I make my own bread, well I use a Panasonic SD – 253 bread maker, which is brilliant.

You put all the ingredients in, set the machine, and it mixes, rests, kneads, rests, kneads again, then cooks the loaf. It does all this completely automatically, with no attention required from you after you have switched the machine on. You can set a timer so that your bread is ready in the morning when you come down for breakfast – to the smell of delicious freshly cooked bread.

And you can use whatever flour and other ingredients you want. I add olives usually, and I find that using olive oil instead of margarine produces a loaf with a much better consistency and softer texture.

I also don't put any sugar in, which most shop bought bread has.

.

Edited By John Doe 2 on 22/07/2023 10:18:24

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

My wife developed a series of allergies in later life. She buys M&S seeded wheat free loafs. The best of a bad job. She does tell me that it is not as good as it once was, suspected a recipe change. It can have a very inconsistent texture.She also avoids many other things including milk. Often get gluten free products from tescos (but not any of their bread), but their products can be off the shelf for long periods.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

I was diagnosed with Coeliac disease over 30 years ago, I was hospitalised as I was so anaemic and given a blood transfusion, pretty amazing seeing my pink skin. Back then it was pretty much unheard of in the public eye and GF foods were only available on prescription, basic items anyway like bread, flour, pasta and some biscuits.

When I was advised by the hospital I had to avoid things with gluten in them I thought bread, cakes and biscuits. Gradually realised it covered so many other things like confectionary, sauces, battered fish, flavoured crisps and so on, I even fell foul of grated cheese that comes in packets, yes I know you can grate your own but this was the type you had in a cafe on say a jacket spud, the problem was it having been dusted with wheat flour to stop it sticking together. These days it tends to be rice or potato flour.

GF foods are now widely available of course and as far as bread is concerned I too find them very variable, not only taste but full of holes and breaks apart, this is on supermarket brand as well as more expensive brands such as Genius.

Best so far is a Sainsbury one I bought the other day, don't usually shop there as we don't have one as close as we do for Tesco, Asda and Aldi.

I have to say that M&S is pretty good. Whatever brand however there is one consistent feature, cost, four or five times the cost of 'ordinary' bread when you take into account weight as well, GF loaves are generally smaller.

Eating out is of course the most difficult for me, a million times better than it was all those years ago but very frustrating when you see a menu totally devoid of GF but plenty of vegetarian and vegan, both a life style choice not a medical neccessity as far as I am aware. Thankfully there a growing number of restaurants catering for 'proper' GF by which I mean not just leaving things out. The 'Lounges' chain do a standard and a complete GF menu, go there for a full English breakfast sometimes which means you get sausage and toast as well.

We moved to Somerset a few years after my diagnosis so developed a taste for cider rather than beer but glad to say GF beers now available which taste pretty good to me, to those who think GF beers, bread and so on are revolting remember that to me I can't do a back to back comparison so GF taste and texture is the norm.

I do feel a bit peed of when passing the delicious aromas wafting from a bakery or pie shop however but no good cheating and I never have, the consequences both short and long term are severe. Coeliac is a Chronic disease and certainly not a Fad as some people think. Believe me you don't want it.

Bill D.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

PS. John, we have considered a Panasonic bread maker a few times but someone told us a few years back that the mixing paddle leaves a big hole in the bread, is this correct?

Bill D.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Bill Dawes on 26/07/2023 16:11:20:

PS. John, we have considered a Panasonic bread maker a few times but someone told us a few years back that the mixing paddle leaves a big hole in the bread, is this correct?

Bill D.

Yes, that’s correct. You can prevent this though if you get the timing right and remove the paddle before baking. I’ve never bothered though. The hole isn’t a problem unless you want to impress guests?

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

And another PS, for those that might be wondering what GF is, it means a product with a maximum of 20 parts per million of gluten to render it safe to consume for Coeliacs.

Bill D.

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

I think if you young and active naturally you can eat and drink and inhale a lot and get away with it, but as you grow older and naturally less active physically you must start watching what you eat, drink and inhale.

If you live "moderate" you can probaly eat anything later on rather now and then and get away with it.
-Drink water. Alcohol prevent your kidnies from excruting some acid types, not good when older.
-Slight excersize like walking.
-Sleep
-If your body tells you(from head to toes) its not happy, think back what have you put in it, avoid that for some time, drink water and wait and see, be your own "doctor" as far as you can. See if you can find a pain free diet.
-theres always exceptions either way or sides.
-You yourself is more with your body than any health practitioner can ever be.

 

Edited By Chris Mate on 26/07/2023 18:26:56

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

Humans only recently started eating grains, say in the last 10,000 years or so (check me on that).

Some grains and plants have developed a protection mechanism over time, such that they are highly poisonous if eaten.

Some are just mildly poisonous.

The story is that the Romans had huge industrial scale water-powered wheat grinding facilities, and so the Romans and all that they conquered often were fed wheat.

The Vikings supposedly where never conquered by the Romans, and so they never ate wheat (this the story I heard).

So my folks are Viking folks, and I and most of my family (6 out of 8) have Celiacs.

I discovered this rather late in life (about 20 years ago) when all of the joints in my body became inflamed, and I could hardly move.

I suspected I was dying, but I researched it online, and discovered it was Celiacs.

The doctors I went to (all three) were clueless.

All of my joint pain vanished five days after getting off of glutton.

Most with Celiacs never get diagnosed correctly (70% or more ?).

And items labeled "Gluton Free" often means that they have another grain type in them other than barley, wheat, rye, etc.

I am just as allergic to "gluton free" products with alternate grains as I am to wheat, etc.

And a few years later I became allergic to all dairy foods.

So the question comes up, what do I eat?

Not much really; clean meat and fish with nothing on it, vegtables, some fruit.

I don't eat any processed food of any type.

No beer or alcohol.

And folks ask "How do I know what to eat ?".

Generally, a good guide is "If it tastes good, spit it out".

.

 

Edited By PatJ on 26/07/2023 19:42:34

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by PatJ on 26/07/2023 19:41:26:

[…]

And folks ask "How do I know what to eat ?".

Generally, a good guide is "If it tastes good, spit it out".

.

.

Good to see that you have retained a sense of humour

MichaelG.

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

I have been following this thread with interest whilst also reading some interesting books on the gut and microbiome. My non medical understanding is that some of the ailments and problems are starting to be potentially attributed to the state of our gut microbiome with a mis-balance in the make-up of the bugs within.
As a total non-expert in the field, I offer the following books to describe and explain:

· Gut by Giulia Enders (The first I read and the oldest one written)

· 10% Human: How Your Body’s Microbes Hold the Key to Health and Happiness by Alanna Collen (probably the most readable one, includes interesting theories about the spread of obesity in the US)

· Dark Matter: The New Science of the Microbiome by James Kinross (the most technical and driest of the three)

No connections with any of the authors etc, all downloaded from standard bookshop sites.

Simon

[Martin Dilly 2Participant @martindilly2]

I did two years National Service in the 1950s; neither RAF West Kirby nor Locking were renowned for their cuisine, but I don't recall the dining hall floors being strewn with those apparently intolerant to celery, gluten, eggs, fish, lupin, milk, mustard, peanuts or soybeans. I remember at some parades "Fall out the Catholics and Jews", but I'm sure I'd have remembered a call at our messes to "Fall out the gluten or lupin intolerant". Despite that, as far as I know, nobody died.

What has changed in the intervening 70 years? Are kids so over-cosetted by parents concerned that they might have an allergy that they are never allowed to build up a natural resistance to all these things? During the War if we were lucky enough to get a jar of peanut butter from Canada I don't think it carried a health warning ("Caution – contents may contain peanuts" we ate it and it sure as heck beat starving.

How on earth can anyone opening a small restaurant be expected to research which of the endless list of awful allergens a recipe they've used for decades might contain, so they can list them on their menus?

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

Posted by Bill Dawes on 26/07/2023 16:11:20:

PS. John, we have considered a Panasonic bread maker a few times but someone told us a few years back that the mixing paddle leaves a big hole in the bread, is this correct?

Bill D.

Hi Bill, (sorry, I have been away). No, not correct at all.

The Panasonic SD – 253 does of course have a paddle, but the bread expands and forms tightly against it, so when you tap the loaf out of the cooking container, it just leaves a small slot in the base of the loaf.

So a couple of the bread slices will have a small slot at the bottom, but given the fantastic natural bread you can make, and you know exactly what is in it, with no hidden sugar or chemicals; this is no problem at all.

I certainly would never bother taking the paddle out before cooking !!! – very messy and completely unnecessary. The whole point of this bread maker is that after putting all the ingredients in, it completely looks after itself – doing everything without any attention until the loaf has finished cooking. And it has a dispenser to scatter seeds on the top at the right point during the baking, if you want.

Mixing paddle with £1 coin for scale.

Bread mixer / cooking vessel, showing paddle in position. As you can see, it only makes a tiny void in the loaf.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John Doe 2 on 22/07/2023 10:15:43:

I make my own bread, well I use a Panasonic SD – 253 bread maker, which is brilliant.

You put all the ingredients in, set the machine, and it mixes, rests, kneads, rests, kneads again, then cooks the loaf. It does all this completely automatically, with no attention required from you after you have switched the machine on. You can set a timer so that your bread is ready in the morning when you come down for breakfast – to the smell of delicious freshly cooked bread.

And you can use whatever flour and other ingredients you want. I add olives usually, and I find that using olive oil instead of margarine produces a loaf with a much better consistency and softer texture.

I also don't put any sugar in, which most shop bought bread has.

.

Edited By John Doe 2 on 22/07/2023 10:18:24

I don't use any shortening or sugar in my bread, just traditional flour, salt, yeast, water. Takes longer, tastes better.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/07/2023 06:38:57:

Posted by DMB on 20/07/2023 21:53:17:

.

[…]
Not supposed to eat grapefruit, a favourite, as it allegedly interferes with medication. […]

.

That’s a classic case of something I mentioned recently … advice being given on the basis of research that the advisor doesn’t properly understand.

Grapefruit does ‘interfere’ with some medication, and that interference is typically in the nature of “supercharging” the performance of the drug … BUT … the research was based on people who were drinking grapefruit juice in large quantity.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ current advice from a well-informed soirce:

**LINK**

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/07/2023 06:48:27

I understand grapefuit enhances the effect of some drugs and inhibits others.

Neil

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Thanks for info on breadmaker John Doe 2, useful info.

Bill D.

[pmm1Participant @pmm1]

This post has wandered off course into bread making.

For people with coeliac disease gluten destroys the lining of the stomach which limits the ability to absorb nutrients from food. Going on to a gluten free diet allows the stomach lining to recover, which can take up to 2 years. When the stomach has recovered a small trace of gluten cause the stomach to empty itself (putting it mildly). This is extremely unpleasant, can take several hours and result in a 7 lb weight loss.

In the old days, people with coeliac disease developed pernicious anaemia due to their inability to absorb B12 through their gut. The result was death. This usually took some time so would not be evident during national service. These days B12 can be administered by regular injections, which must be continued during the lifetime of the sufferer.

Great strides were made in identifying the cause of coeliac disease during the war when the Dutch were starved of bread and doctors noticed an improvement in people suffering from what is now know as coeliac disease.

Paul

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

Given the apparent difficulty of buying 'edible' gluten free bread; making your own bread could be a useful and valuable alternative for sufferers.

Until I got my bread maker, I had no idea how good they were, and how easy they are to use to give top quality results – much better than bread you can buy at a supermarket, and far more healthy.

So advice about home bread making is not all that far off topic really; and just trying to help.

.

Edited By John Doe 2 on 02/08/2023 23:36:43

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

My wife cooked quite a bit of bread using "glutton-free" grains.

No free lunch though, I am allergic to all sorts of grains, and allergic to all "glutton-free" grains.

Don't get fooled by the glutton-free label; you still may not be able to eat it.

I miss bread, donuts, pizza, etc.

I don't dwell on it though.

.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Is that an intentional ‘typo’ Pat … or a delightful Freudian-slip ?

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/08/2023 11:01:24:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/07/2023 06:38:57:

Posted by DMB on 20/07/2023 21:53:17:

.

[…]
Not supposed to eat grapefruit, a favourite, as it allegedly interferes with medication. […]

.

That’s a classic case of something I mentioned recently … advice being given on the basis of research that the advisor doesn’t properly understand.

Grapefruit does ‘interfere’ with some medication, and that interference is typically in the nature of “supercharging” the performance of the drug … BUT … the research was based on people who were drinking grapefruit juice in large quantity.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ current advice from a well-informed soirce:

**LINK**

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/07/2023 06:48:27

I understand grapefuit enhances the effect of some drugs and inhibits others.

Neil

Quite right, Neil … as noted in the link ^^^

MichaelG.

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

Coeliac is not quite so simple as it would first appear. Gluten causes damage to the gut hence it can lead to complications , osteoporosis etc. but it is not true that in all cases it must be totally avoided . Many thigs contain traces of gluten but in some cases they will cause no serious reactions for some sufferers . Having been through the blood test , endoscope route I was confirmed as positive for Coeliac .I had an interesting discussion with the Consultant who was quite happy for me to consume foods that contain gluten on a "try it and see" basis since I only had the test since my Sister had tested positive . Subsequent tests have no that this is causing no medical issues so I continue to consume beer ( in moderate quantities !! Mustard , malt vinegar etc.

Brian

[Author]

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