Getting started to build live steam

[joshingjoshParticipant @joshingjosh]

Hello, I am new to live steam building. I was planning to build St Christopher by Don Young in 3 1/2 gauge. What would be the recommended size for a lathe and milling machine to create a 4-6-0 Great Western locomotive? Also, would a cutter be needed for a mill?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Whilst there is no harm in setting ones sights high, coming to this with it seems little experience and no tools will be a real challenge ! I would suggest that you start with something more modest and get used to using a lathe and mill. A simple oscillating engine first, this will give you some work in precision followed by may be a Stuart Models 10 V or H with this done you will have a better idea of what to do and how to do it. You will also now realise the cost involved for castings, your boiler will be £2000 for a ready made unit.

A small lathe and mill will spoil £2000 by the time you have tooling Etc

Good Luck. Noel

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Starting a loco as a first project is ambitious to say the least. A project like this can take from many months or more likely several years to complete. If as seems likely from your initial post that you are just starting into the model engineering hobby then you will need quite a selection of tooling above and beyond just a lathe and mill to finish the project. Not to mention fairly deep pockets for materials.

If you are are about to set up a new workshop have a look at Journeyman’s Workshop this is a link to five pages on setting up and equipping a workshop with some basic info about lathe, mill and hand tools.

Good luck with your project.

John

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Welcome, and top marks for aiming high.   That’s ambitious!  I strongly recommend starting with a simpler project or three, as a way of developing the necessary skills first.

I found Stewart Hart’s Potty Mill an excellent starter project. (Site up but not responding at the moment – try later)  It’s a relatively simple stationary engine built from stock – no castings needed.   You will learn how to read technical drawings and how to approach cutting parts from metal.  Drilling, sawing, filing, milling, threading , reaming, boring, lapping and turning.  Measurements.  Workflows – the order in which parts are made, because the sequence of machine operations applied can simplify or complicate a build.   Lots of practical skills to develop, so don’t be surprised to fill a scrap box with failures at first!

As to size of lathe, it’s good advice to buy the biggest you can.   It’s because small lathes can only do small work, whilst big lathes, can usually manage to do tiny.   (The exception is small lathes are better when only small work is being done – clockmakers shouldn’t buy monster equipment, unless of course they also mend motor bikes!)

A quick look at St Christopher on the Reeves website suggests the biggest item to be turned are the 5¼” driving wheels.  The lathe has to be big enough to do that, and the attribute is called ‘swing’.   5¼” is 134mm, so look for a machine generously beyond that. The Warco range put maximum swing their model names!  WM180, swing 180mm, WM240, swing 240mm etc.  Most mini lathes claim about 180mm, but that’s optimistic.  Problem is achievable swing is often rather less than the theoretical maximum.  Whilst a lathe might be able to spin a large diameter job bolted to a faceplate, not held in a chuck, it gets increasingly difficult to get the cutter into position because the saddle, cross-slide, top-slide, and tool post tend to get in the way.   A bigger lathe, having a bigger chuck, often simplifies work-holding because the chuck will grip the job without fuss, so no need to set the part up on a faceplate.

Same ‘go big if you can’ applies to milling machines too.   Having plenty of room on the table greatly simplifies work-holding – quite difficult to secure a large object on a small mill.

Yes you will need a cutter for the mill, actually several and much else.   To find out what, buy a book, and ask here.  Our very own Jason  Ballamy’s “Milling for Beginners” is a good intro.  For lathes, it’s hard to beat L H Sparey’s “The Amateur’s Lathe”, except it doesn’t cover carbide inserts or digital gizmos; written in 1948!  For modern gizmos try Neil Wyatt’s “The Mini-Lathe“.

I don’t build locomotives, so let’s hope an expert will comment.   My biggest problem if I decided to build one is the boiler, a big subject in it’s own right.

Dave

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I brought my first lathe and milling machine with the view to turn some ambitious projects, but knowing that I would need some practice first.

Even so, I brought mine to suit future projects so that I did not have to sell and buy bigger later on once I had enough experience to build the projects I wanted to make.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Welcome to the forum. Now find your nearest Model Engineering club (even if that is a 50 mile round trip) as they may have some equipment available and lots of advice and support. Don’t buy anything for six months. Spend the time reading this forum, some books, and the ME magazine back issues. After that if you cannot answer the questions yourself then you need to do more reading.
Best advice at the moment: Plan your workshop. Throw the plans away and start again with a shed twice the size.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Yes, Welcome to the Forum

But take note of what has been said. DON’T be overambitious!

There is a VAST fund of knowledge, experience and skill on here.

You have made a good first move by asking.

Taking on a locomotive, or any complicated project, without skill or experience, let alone equipment, is a recipe for at least one expensive disaster.

You might find yourself with expensive mistakes, no idea of how you made them, or how to correct, or prevent repeats.

Once you have decided what size of lathe you want / can afford (And the measuring equipment and ancillary tooling) and the space needed. Start by learning how to set it up and use it.

When you ask a question, make sure that you call things by the right name, otherwise you will get answers to a question that you didn’t ask, and possibly can’t understand.

A Turner used to serve a four year apprenticeship, so a month or two is not going to produce immediate skill in a beginner.

The first two things that I learned were that setting a cut on a lathe takes material off both sides, making it easy to remove twice as much as wanted, and then how to turn a handwheel slowly and steadily.

Join a model engineering club, and buy some books. (I can suggest titles, as no doubt can others)

You would have problems moving a 5″ centre height (10″ swing) lathe into a third floor flat (And the neighbours may object to any noise that you make!

Then start by just learning how to set up the lathe, grind tools, and just cut bits of mild steel to gain a little experience. You need to learn how to drill and tap holes. Going about it in the wrong way will be a very expensive method. Taps don’t bend, they break, and that ruins the workpiece.

Sorry to appear to be negative, but we all had to learn to stand before walking, let alone running.

One further bit of advice. Research your supplier before buying, some provide better after sales support than others. Some will offer a complete package, others a bare machine and then a range of accessories.

If buying second, or more, hand, take someone with you to examine the machine. Don’t be taken in by shiny paint, it may not show wear or other problems.

Tell us where you are located, there may be someone closeby whi is prepared to help and advise.

Howard

Howard

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

Hi Josh

Lots of encouragement and friendly help here on the Forum.

Please help me understand where you are knowledge-wise when you say will the milling machine need a cutter?

Norm

[joshingjosh]

On 28 November 2024 at 01:00 joshingjosh Said:

Hello, I am new to live steam building. I was planning to build St Christopher by Don Young in 3 1/2 gauge. What would be the recommended size for a lathe and milling machine to create a 4-6-0 Great Western locomotive? Also, would a cutter be needed for a mill?

By a ‘cutter’ if you are really referring to something to hold a cutter, then yes. Almost all the smaller mills are supplied only with a drill chuck, which is unsuitable for holding milling cutters.

The two ME books by Jason and Neil will probably cover most of your questions for new machines.

Please ‘do’ due diligence when choosing your machine and ensure that the largest part that you wish to make is comfortably inside the specs and not right on the outer limit.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Josh,

Have been trying to send you a PM, but failed.

If you PM me, with an E mail address, I can send the message, which i hope  will be of help

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have a feeling he wants to cut the top of a spam tin.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Jason,

Is my message too long to send, perhaps? What is the upper limit on character count?

Howard

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

‘Joshing’ is not a word I had heard of until a new young employee at a place I was working at used it when asked to make a brew. I may be wrong, but maybe JokingJoke has come out of Jason’s spam tin.

I dont want to rant about the ‘new’ forum software but knowing the members location (even if only the country) by the applicant having to fill in some forms when joining the forum might deter the non serious.

I apologise to joshingjosh if my analysis is wrong.

Ian P

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Howard, I think you get a message it it is tool long.

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