gas filler valves

[Dougie SwanParticipant @dougieswan43463]

Hi guys,

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of a gas filler valve?

 

I want to make a gas tank for my latest project, a steam launch with a gas fired boiler, but can’t seem to find any source for a filler valve I can fit to the tank 

 

After a couple of hours trolling the internet I suddenly thought, if anyone knows it will be one of you lot

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks in advance

 

Dougie

[Dougie SwanParticipant @dougieswan43463]

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Dougie,

 

This might suit, it’s a Ronson Lighter filler valve, not a bad price either,

 

Terry

[Dougie SwanParticipant @dougieswan43463]

THERE YOU GO!!

 

Two hours on internet, with no joy and less than 40 mins on this forum !!

 

Thanks Terry, I’ll keep an eye on this

 

All the best

 

Dougie

 

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

Be careful it is illegal in the UK to transfer Propane gas (without a license). One of the past editors of M.E. also refused to print drawings and instructions on how to make such equipment. He wrote that to do so would be illegal.

[Dougie SwanParticipant @dougieswan43463]

So what about all the millions of smokers who fill up their fag lighters from a yellow can of lighter gas which is what I was planning.

 

Are they all breakling the law?

 

Dougie

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think you will find lighters are butane not propane

 

Bruce engineering also sell a couple of gas filling  valves including teh lighter refill type and one that can use the small camping stove gas bottles

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 28/12/2010 17:32:14

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Try Forest Steam.

They advertise on Ebay.

regards david

 

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I don’t have a licence and I fill my car up with 47 litres of propane once or twice a week…

 

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Richard,

 

The valves we are discussing are for butane cigarette lighters etc,  They are quite common and perfectly legal. 

 

Dougie, at a pinch you could try cheap refillable cigarette lighters, They are sold on uor local marketr at about 8 for £1.  They have filler valves incorporated but whether they have screw threads is debatable, but worth a quid to find out?

 

Terry

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Hi Stub   No but the garage has got a licence.  I think you will find that the gas you use is a mixture nt just propane

Dougie I collect the thrown away lighters (lots of springs and bits) Normaly the valves are moulded in

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Propane dangerous…. Butane, chuck it about how yer’ like….  Mmmm.

 

Ever seen a butane lighter go up?

 

And, how about oxy/propane and oxy/acetylene welding?  Or just a propane torch at that? 

 

And, what about hooking a propane tank up to one’s caravan?

 

Questions, questions…..

 

Ian 

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Just thought, some welders in Canada used to use disposable lighters to ignite their torches ( and cigarettes ), then slip the lighter into their top pocket to be handy………..

 

Whoooooosh.

 

Ian 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, I had that happen with a box of Swan Vesta matches before the advent of the first type of refilable cheap gas lighters. Very startling I can tell you. Have heard of it happening to people with the desposables in thier boiler suit side pockets, while welding. Nasty flash burns are one result I understand.

 

Regards Nick.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Richard Parsons on 29/12/2010 18:28:55:

Hi Stub   No but the garage has got a licence.  I think you will find that the gas you use is a mixture nt just propane

Dougie I collect the thrown away lighters (lots of springs and bits) Normaly the valves are moulded in

 

 Could the valves be modified Richard, perhaps by boring out a bit of brass screw of suitable size say 5 or 6 mil.and soldering the valve into it somehow?  I must look for a suitable lighter and try it. How about old Ronson or Colibri lighters etc, they often appear in junk shops cheaply.  Or at least used to ,  It’s a very long time since I smoked.

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 30/12/2010 00:55:00

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

When it comes to an actual fire, there is of course little to choose between either butane or propane, IIRC the propane has a bit higher calorific value but that tends to be a bit academic if the flame is in contact with you . However the higher vapour pressure of propane at normal temperatures means that the tanks needed for it are a lot more serious than are required for butane, and the regulations applied generally reflect that. Just to confuse issues mixtures are also used, and if the gas is drawn off quickly the butane will tend to come first, leaving more propane and hence possibly a higher pressure once the rapid draw off ceases.

 

At room temperature propane will be at about 110 psi, while butane will be at about 17.

 

regards

John

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

I cannot remember the details or the date but sometime in the ‘80s some ‘cove’ was transferring Propane using something ‘very home made’ and ‘wallop Mrs Cox’ the lot went up. There was not much left so no real blame could be laid. The Gnomes of Elfin Safety leapt in and increased their powers (and their empire) and made the whole thing illegal.

John I did not realise that at room temperature the pressure of propane was so high. This explains an explosion which happened near me. About 5 years ago I had helped to design and build a ‘Kandelo’ a sort of cross between a ‘a Old tortoise stove and a ‘storage heater’. Normally they are built of brick and ceramic but this one was based on a 50 gallon (250 litre) oil drum. 

The workshop next door was using a butane/propane heater which froze up (it was -15 outside. They put two part used bottles on top of the Kandelo and were eating their lunch. The bottles went up.-4 dead, a row of small workshops demolished and lots of broken windows. Many lives were spared as they were all ‘down the pub’. The Kandelo was exonerated as it was burning sawdust at the time.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

As with all matters “gas” it  is how and what you do that matters. If there is not a source of ignition present and all metal items are “bonded” properly  together, there will (should) not be a problem, hence the licensed garage operation.

 

I remember once during the Natural Gas Conversion programme some years ago seeing an “operative” checking a joint with a match, as it was in the garage attached to my house, he was told very impolitely what he should do!

Edited By KWIL on 30/12/2010 10:55:56

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, we are all aware that compressed propane turns to liguid inside the cylinder, its boiling point in the natural atmosphere is –42.1 degrees. While you have liquid proane in the cylinder, its equilibreum pressure inside the cylinder at normal temperatures is always approximately 7 bar (100psi approx)

 

   1 volume of propane liquid will produce approximately 250 volumes of gas when vapourised. Propane gas is typically one and a half times heavier than air, and will settle in low points, gullies, drains, cellers and the like. It is a difficult gas to be despersed and should not be stored or used below ground, e.g. cellers. It must be remembered  that as well as being highly flammable, with flammability limits in air of 2% to10% approx, it is also an asphyxiante.

 

Propane cylinders must always be used, moved and transported in the upright position. Exceptions are those special types used on fork lift trucks ect. which, by thier design are effectively in thier upright position lying down.

 

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 30/12/2010 11:29:59

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 30/12/2010 11:51:32

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I am aware of the need to keep my Acetylene cylinder upright in transport and in use, but what is the need with a Propane cylinder in transport?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Kwil, if propane cylinders containing liquid propane are allowed to be laying down, the liquid can affect the operation of the relief valve, with potentially hazardous results.

 

Acetylene cylinders may be transported laying down, but not recommended, however if acetylene cylinders have been lying down, then they must be standing upright for the same period of time, up to 12 hours before the valve is opened; i.e. if you’ve had them lying down in your truck/van to take to a job and it’s taken you 1 hour to load travel and unload, then they must stand upright for at least 1 hour before attempting to use them. They must never be used laying below an angle of about 30 degrees from upright.

 

BTW it is illegal to transport portable cylinders on the british highway with the equipment being attached, some exceptions are any vehicle powered using gas cylinders or vehicles using gas equipment for road maintenece etc. life dependent equipment eg. oxygen breathing equipment.

 

Regards Nick.

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

    I can’t find the artical just now, but at a University in Austrailia (I think), propane was being used in large cylinders, but because of the high rate of use they had the cylinder wrapped in an electric blanket opperated by a thermostat.  The blanket was inadvertantly left on over night, and the thermostat did’nt switch off, in the morning when the staff arrived, the shed was flattened by the exploding cylinder.

 

     Here in the South Island until a few years ago, at times in the winter I could not use the gas in the workshop because of lack of pressure on cold days, but the gas mixture is now changed ie., the propane butane ratio is altered, that proberbly happened in other parts of the world years before.  Ian S C

 

   

[Anonymous]

BTW it is illegal to transport portable cylinders on the british highway with the equipment being attached

 

Oeeer, better not mention the oxygen cylinder in my glider then! I don’t disconnect it before towing on the road.

 

I always transport my acetylene cylinders vertically; oxygen cylinders I tend to lie flat. Argon cylinders I have delivered, as they won’t fit into the car, and they’re too heavy for me to lift anyway.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi,

      Ian,

             the rate of gas boiling of the liquid inside the cylinder is somewhat determined by the anbient tenperature, and is the result of themal energy transfering through the cylinder wall. In high demand or low temp situations, cylinders can be manifolded together to overcome high rates of gas demand.

 

      Andrew,

                     your glider could be a grey area. Unless you check it out, you may find that an RTA, should you ever be unfortunate, will give you the answer.

 

Regards Nick.

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

There is an article in EIM latest edition showing how to make a filler vave from a car tyre valve.

David

[Author]

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