Garmin sat nav

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Mil precision was via SA, selective availabillity or the lack of it ! In the gulf war so few mil grade satnav sets were available that they had to use civi ones and turn off SA, I'm not sure it was ever used after that ! Noel

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Back to the original theme, new battery seems to have fixed it.fairly easy to fit as well.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Chris – I don't know mt TomTom's model. It's sitting next to the computer but examining it reveals no designation. The most awkward thing about it, is having to remember it has no [Enter] key or equivalent. It took me a long time to discover it assumes you are entering the destination at the start if the journey itself, then you select [Drive].

It is accurate, but slow to react in heavy traffic in complicated areas giving no time or space to do anything but either take the correct turning immediately (if you can); or continue as the traffic dictates and try to correct the mistake within the next few miles.

It's often also slow and ambiguous on roundabouts, and never clear if it has counted as the first "exit", your entry road.

Best way is simply to avoid driving in cities! Luckily I do not need to.

'

Duncan – Encouraged by your and other's comments I've just examined mine. If it has an internal battery it is not replaceable. The case cannot be opened, and is probably glued together.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Nigel, I don't doubt a word you say about your experience with a Tom Tom. It seems we must have had different models of the sat-nav device, one more convenient to use than the other.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Just did my annual free update on my pair of Garmins, a year old Zumo for the bike and an old Nuvi for the car.

Surprised how long the Garmin program took to decide that the sat nav was actually linked up to the computer. Couple of minutes before the right picture appeared on the sat-nav displays and 5 or 10 minutes mimbling before the program said connected and ready to update. Nuvi is running short of memory so only UK and Ireland now, down from all of Western Europe when I got it maybe 7 years ago. All that map data is big 3GB used and 3 GB spare but Western Europe is about 8 GB!

I was surprised how much faster the later one was at loading the new maps. Less than half the time for over twice the data. Certainly no apparent difference in how fast it actually does its sat-nav thing.

In many ways Waze on a smartphone is a better bet because it shows you what's going on with traffic right now. But it chews through data at a ferocious rate if used all the time. Not completely convinced about the Waze display compared to Garmin either.

Clive

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter Greene on 16/07/2021 17:21:31:

Posted by Samsaranda on 11/07/2021 11:27:20:

I always thought that the primary purpose of the satellite navigation system was for the guidance of nuclear bombers and cruise missiles, the civilian use is coincidental.

GPS was a US Naval Research Laboratories project of the 70's and in that sense had a military purpose but it was intended as a general positioning system…

Though available for civilian use, 'The bulk of the program is budgeted through the Department of Defense, which has primary responsibility for developing, acquiring, operating, sustaining, and modernizing GPS.'

Galileo was developed by the EU specifically because GPS and GLASNOST are military systems. Not for moral reasons, but because military systems during times of tension are liable to be encrypted or used to apply political pressure.

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

……'

Galileo was developed by the EU specifically because GPS and GLASNOST are military systems. Not for moral reasons, but because military systems during times of tension are liable to be encrypted or used to apply political pressure.

Dave

So of course we walked away from it, I'll stop now or it will get political

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Am just updating my, basic, Tom Tom.

For a time, having said "Searching for updates", the PC then said "Device not responding" (Repeatedly! )

After several attempts, managed to download the two smaller updates.

The third large one for Europe, including UK refused for well over an hour "Device not responding. Try reconnecting your device"

Suddenly, almost instantaneous "Updating". (ONLY takes 50 minutes of "Updating your device"  )

How else would I have spent the last 3 hours?

Which do I prefer, electronics or mechanical devices?

Send answers on a £50 note!

Howard  EMOJIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited By Howard Lewis on 17/07/2021 14:30:59

Edited By Howard Lewis on 17/07/2021 14:31:32

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

For those of us old enough to remember maps on paper AND know how to use them, buy a copy of Phillips Navigator ! OK it's about £20 but the scale is almost as good as OS and shows just about everything you will need to know about whats around you. NO CONNECTION WITH THE PUBLISHER ! Noel

[Jim Smith 8Participant @jimsmith8]

When portable devices like satnavs are left alone a long time, they can actually still be running a processor on low power. As the battery drains to near zero, the processor function can get corrupted. Remove the old battery and leave it out for a day. Fit a new fully charged battery and see if it boots to the normal screen. Some satnavs have a reboot or reset option buttton hidden in the case that can do the same thing? When you buy a car satnav you are often not buying a piece of hardware kit, but a business model for future expensive updates.

Edited By Jim Smith 8 on 17/07/2021 17:16:52

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I find a little time spent on google maps gives me a good idea of my route so no need to have a sat nav wittering all the time, the last few miles can be easier with a sat nav. My sons girlfriend at the time was amazed that I drove from Oxford to Turin without a map or sat nav. I had done the trip once previously but I think her mum uses a sat nav to go to the village shops so 800 miles without a map was surprising to her.

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Mike Poole on 17/07/2021 17:20:42:

I find a little time spent on google maps gives me a good idea of my route so no need to have a sat nav wittering all the time, the last few miles can be easier with a sat nav. My sons girlfriend at the time was amazed that I drove from Oxford to Turin without a map or sat nav. I had done the trip once previously but I think her mum uses a sat nav to go to the village shops so 800 miles without a map was surprising to her.

Mike

That reminds me of what my wife told me about what a ‘lucky driver’ I was – because I did not actually come to a halt at any of the roundabouts while travelling from Shaftesbury to Croydon. The old lady only drove at about 20mph, locally to her home, and likely stopped at most roundabouts, even if traffic was sparse.

Anyhow, sorted the PC pic. The Garmins will not work reliably from a USB connection. Cost me £8.49 for a power lead (one with good positive reviews) – over 4 times as much as the sat nav cost me, from a car boot sale.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

On the in car charging lead for my previous Garmin there were resistors between the data pins and ground (I think). An ordinary USB lead won't work, but when my power adaptor died I cut the end of the lead and grafted it onto a normal lead and it then worked fine off a cheapo 5v fag lighter adaptor. Values are on the interweb somewhere.

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Hello all.

Note to Clive Foster, You may be able to update your Nuvi with all of Europe again.

I suffered from being unable to update my Europe map on my Nuvi. The best I could achieve was the Benelux countries & France (without the UK). But my Nuvi is able to have additional memory installed (up to 32Mb on a micro SD card).  Memory was about £12 at our local supermarket. There is a memory slot at one end of the Nuvi body.

The memory was installed, the Garmin update programme recognised this, and now have Europe and the UK maps back on the device.

Hope this helps.

Alan.

Edited By Alan Donovan on 18/07/2021 06:35:24

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by duncan webster on 17/07/2021 22:54:40:

On the in car charging lead for my previous Garmin there were resistors between the data pins and ground (I think). An ordinary USB lead won't work, but when my power adaptor died I cut the end of the lead and grafted it onto a normal lead and it then worked fine off a cheapo 5v fag lighter adaptor. Values are on the interweb somewhere.

I tried the USB because my wife’s power cord would not hold in (my old cigar lighther socket is likely in need of an up-grade). It worked OK, then played up. The following day it worked perfectly for a 211 mile journey, then stopped working. So the supply must be marginal from the USB (possibly temperature dependent?) – or garmin have somehow altered the parameters. All back working OK, now, with both sat navs.

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

On topic with Garmin, but changing the focus a bit.
Acouple of days ago a friend came and told – quite annoyed – that during the update process of his Garmin he was asked if he agrees that Garmin uses his position data so that he can receive e.g. traffic jam warnings. He decided to refuse this offer!

Now I always thought that a navi gadget is just a receiver, so how could Garmin get data back? Now I also have a Garmin, Model Drive 60, and thought I will check that out. It was bought in 2017, so maybe time for an update. First had to charge the battery, I thought it was not working first. But after some hours it was fully charged, and I started updating. Lo and behold, I also got that message, and I also refused. Then all went well, first it did an update of the software, and then an update for western Europe (for all maps I would have needed additional memory). The card updates needed about 3 hours, but now it is all working again.

I still don't believe that this device has any ways to send data back to the factory, except someone can explain how it's done.

Regards,
Hans

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Hans, I'm just guessing here – so may be totally wrong – but possibly by knowing it's position, the satnav could selectively download (or receive over the air) information relevant to where it is. In other words, the information is being broadcast for all areas, but the unit only grabs what it needs.

Actually, the more I think about that, the less likely it seems

Maybe someone else knows for sure?

Rob

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Hans, I guess they must transmit your position, otherwise how would it be able to tell when you reach junctions etc? and give you the next instruction and tell you when you have reached your destination, and it will recalculate when you go wrong or get a diversion or you decide to take a short cut that you know of.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 19/07/2021 16:16:33

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

modern car sat-nav and engine diagnostics are often linked to a mobile phone sim – that could easily provide data back to Garmin

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The basic unit is just a doppler receiver, it can't transmit

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

No, GPS is not a doppler receiver, but let's not go into how it actually works, Wikipedia no doubt has a great explanation.

Traffic data is transmitted on a number of channels using RDS on FM and similar facilities on DAB. Certainly the TomTom that I had could use this data coming from the car radio to show live traffic though it needed an extra dongle. Both my recent VAG group cars showed live traffic data on the built-in Satnav – one Skoda and one Audi – coming from this source. Neither asked my permission to share my position since no data needed to leave the car – I suspect Garmin asking for your consent is just Americans going over the legal top to avoid being charged under GDPR regs.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[quote]

Personal data that is processed when you use your Garmin auto navigation device or app:

If you use a Garmin auto navigation device or app and provide your consent, then Garmin will collect and upload from your device data such as location, speed, direction, and time and date of recording. If you provide your consent when asked, then Garmin may also share this aggregated data with third parties to enhance the quality of the traffic, parking, and other features enabled by content providers.

PURPOSE AND LEGAL GROUND:

This data is aggregated with data from other consenting users and is used to enhance the quality of our products, services, and apps and the traffic, parking, and other features enabled by Garmin or third parties. The legal ground for processing this data for this purpose is your consent, which you may withdraw at any time within the settings of your Garmin device or app.

[/quote]
.

Ref. **LINK**

https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/privacy/global/policy/

MichaelG.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 19/07/2021 16:14:51:

Hi Hans, I guess they must transmit your position, otherwise how would it be able to tell when you reach junctions etc? and give you the next instruction and tell you when you have reached your destination

I dont think so. The GPS system knows where it is on the digital map. It then calculates where you are and distances to the next nav point. My Garmin receives traffic data as an FM signal (Traffic Message Channel) through the special cigarette lighter charging lead. A two way system would probably involve mobile telephony and a sim card, which would involve an annual charge like on most modern cards.

Rod

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Frances IoM on 19/07/2021 16:16:56:
modern car sat-nav and engine diagnostics are often linked to a mobile phone sim – that could easily provide data back to Garmin

+1

Frances is correct. The phenomenon is called convergence, where computing, communications and real-world devices integrate in new ways, usually with plummeting costs. It's not like the good old days when a typewriter, telephone, radio and TV set were all separate devices built from incompatible technologies. Now, because they are pretty all much made the same way, it's feasible to merge almost anything even slightly electronic.

As old technology was single function it was necessary to buy several different boxes whenever several functions were needed. People rightly expected complex systems to cost much more than basic ones but this is no longer true: it's not expensive to make a smart phone that communicates world-wide, knows where it is with 2 metres,can be a spirit level, compass, and altimeter, navigate a car, stream Radio and TV, browse the internet, print, take photographs and HD videos, link to anything Bluetooth, and connect to a multitude of services the owner knows nowt about.

The advantage of putting a mobile phone chip in a Satnav is it keeps itself up-to-date without bothering the owner with complicated USB cables and horrid software! The disadvantage is loss of privacy. There's no particular reason why a car Satnav shouldn't communicate with the engine management unit, or the dealer, or the Disney Channel, or be hacked by organised crime.

Whether or not a Satnav phones home or not depends on the model. Many do. Older models probably don't because mobile phone calls used to be expensive; not now! As far as I can see there is no end to convergence.

Dave

[Jim Smith 8Participant @jimsmith8]

Access to private data and what data is accessed will depend on the type of operating platform and their business model options. What private data are we talking about? Once you register a legit copy they have a tag of the software serial purchase linked to you – this is the trick manufacturers use to get you to register a warranty. As you drive about their software can sample routes you take and where you go to and at what times. Aggregated this information can be sold for traffic management purposes. To reduce the amount of data they have to keep stored on you, this may be no more than date,start point, end point grid references and journey time.

If you have old Garmin or TomTom using a memory card, maps are stored on it according to what you pay and there is no magic 'back channel' for data to get back – Unless you do an upgrade when the software licence is verified and there could be an opportunity to upload data to them. If you use F.M traffic data, intelligence sits in the application and again there is no back channel to send back data. As you drive the GPS receiver continuously updates you position (receive only, no back channel) which is overlaid on the map stored locally.

If your satnav device has a wi-fi connection' always on' or can connect to the internet using a cable to your PC, supposedly for updates, then you have agreed and opened up a back channel for data other than licence details to be sent back. I always disable automatic software updating and choose to do these things when I want and not have my devices crash or freeze doing huge updates.

A new business model approach is to put Maps needing a large amount of storage and most of the processing that would have been done locally on a Cloud server. This takes care of authenticating licenses, they only have to update their server maps and devices need less memory and processing power. In addition the user can get a high resolution location map and route faster from a cloud server rather than doing heavy calculations on a local device. But they do need a back channel which may be mobile internet SIM through your phone account. This would be how you use Google maps on a phone whilst driving. Once you allow this model, you are open to all kinds of data extraction about you and your journeys which can be in realtime as you drive.

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