Fuse Rating for VFD

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I've just got a very cheap VFD (Vevor customer return) and have wired it up but as there were no instructions included I was wondering what rate fuse I should be using in the plug. Will this do or should I remove a strand or two so it gives a bit more protection?

Or as I had to tee into the ring main to run a new cable to the socket

Would I be better off doing similar in the fuse box?

I think it should all be safe as I have put the VFD in a metal enclosure as I have seen advised here and had the old biscuit time laying around anyway.

 

Thanks in advance J

Edited By JasonB on 15/08/2023 19:21:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

All I can say is that I'm gobsmacked at those pictures, the state of that wiring.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

That mains plug photo gave me the best laugh I've had in ages, unbelievable! (disclaimer : I would of course never advise / recommend this as a serious method of safe electric installation)

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Careful Jason, there are people about who would take you seriously.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

They walk amongst us……

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 15/08/2023 21:19:17:

They walk amongst us……

Likely a few more, if those pics were taken from a ‘how to do it’ video.🙂

Darwin award applicants?

Or will be evidence at a future murder investigation?

I once came across an extension lead with a plug on both ends (and not for feeding a generator output back into the house wiring!). I corrected it – it was on a young hair-dresser’s portable hair dryer (hood type) which had been ‘wired’ by her Dad.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

At least the pug hasn't overheated much.
This was on an Ebay purchase, described as tested, working and in regular use.
The centre screw was so rusted I had to use a Warrington screwdriver to get the cover off

Bill

[Chris Pearson 1Participant @chrispearson1]

That's hopeless. It doesn't take much skill to turn up an appropriate length of brass rod to fit the fuse holder. (Which is what a chum of mine did to avoid blowing the BS 1362 fuse on start-up.)

Edited By Chris Pearson 1 on 15/08/2023 22:03:29

Edited By Chris Pearson 1 on 15/08/2023 22:03:55

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

We used to use 2BA bolts, only joking.. Dave W

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I have seen a piece of rod in a 13A plug on an extension lead: "the appliances are all fused", I was told.

Even worse, and I kid thee not, a roll of aluminium foil in a 13A plug… in a small plating works where in cold weather most surfaces were damp with condensation. (Yes I know distilled water is not very conductive, but it doesn't take much contamination to send the ohms 'ome.)

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember73969]

[This posting has been removed]

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I was in the process of designing the replacement for this 5kv switchgear, when it all blew up.

The manager asked me "Do you think we should have replaced this equipment sooner?".

I said "Well…………………………..yes".

You can't make this stuff up.

.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

You've done everything correctly so far, stick the highest rating fuse that will physically fit in there so you don't have to waste time opening it up again.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well if you like those then you may want to look at a Facebook group that I have had a few posts come through on my feed over the last few days which is where those images came from called I take pictures of electronic Parts

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

It is obvious that this post is meant to be 'tongue in cheek' but I did have a friend, now no longer with us although he wasn't electrocuted, whose workshop wiring and electrics did almost resemble some of the examples shown. Despite my warnings of the dangers he never did improve the situation.

But the OP does raise some serious considerations. I would like to think that my workshop electrics are to a high standard. All the wiring is in trunking and conduit around the walls with glands fitted for the armoured cable in-feed to the consumer unit (taken from the house electrics which have been certified) and which has the correct value MCB's fitted for the two ring mains and lighting. The larger machines are 'plumbed' in (no plug and socket) with isolator switches fitted. This was all done prior to 'Part P' but I am of the understanding that these building regulations only apply to the main domestic residence, not to any out-building. Am I correct in this assumption?

All the house electrics that I am not allowed to do myself have been certificated because I need the proof if and when the property is sold but whether the workshop goes with the property or is dismantled and sold separately is another matter so this question may arise.

Edited By Chris Crew on 16/08/2023 07:46:47

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Was informed by grandson, a tig welding set he was looking at, brand new from supplier, had a solid metal 'Fuse' fitted in the 13A plug.

Regards Ian.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by Chris Crew on 16/08/2023 07:43:59:

It is obvious that this post is meant to be 'tongue in cheek' but I did have a friend, now no longer with us although he wasn't electrocuted, whose workshop wiring and electrics did almost resemble some of the examples shown. Despite my warnings of the dangers he never did improve the situation.

But the OP does raise some serious considerations. I would like to think that my workshop electrics are to a high standard. All the wiring is in trunking and conduit around the walls with glands fitted for the armoured cable in-feed to the consumer unit (taken from the house electrics which have been certified) and which has the correct value MCB's fitted for the two ring mains and lighting. The larger machines are 'plumbed' in (no plug and socket) with isolator switches fitted. This was all done prior to 'Part P' but I am of the understanding that these building regulations only apply to the main domestic residence, not to any out-building. Am I correct in this assumption?

All the house electrics that I am not allowed to do myself have been certificated because I need the proof if and when the property is sold but whether the workshop goes with the property or is dismantled and sold separately is another matter so this question may arise.

Edited By Chris Crew on 16/08/2023 07:46:47

You are not correct on "Part P". Some internal domestic work you can do yourself. Anything outside now has to be carried out by a "qualified" person. Some work such as re-wires and new installations need to be notified.
This isnormally done through the electricians "professional" registered body.
In theory you can do it yourself if you can convince your building control officer that you are competent and they do the notification. The time,effort and cot of this route makes it impractical.
Also note that a company only needs one "qualified" person as long as they are prepared to sign off on the others work. My most recent experience of a "competent" contractor was not very good. They were "hobson's choice" due to enforced timescales but were awful.

Robert.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

The devil lies in the two words Qualified and Competent. I personally have not seen the word qualified in the lit I have read.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

My bad. Note I put competent in quotes. It appaers that the requirements depend on the registration body. I looked at one a few years ago and it appeared thier minium standard was completing their two day part P course. They did say if you had no experience you also took their 5 day initial course.

To the cynic in me it seemed to be more about making money than ensuring competence. They also sold the multifuntion testers used on their courses…
The cost of the relevant standard BS7671 "Requirements for Electrical Installations" at over £100 seems excessive to me. Note only the IET call them regulations and they are not mandatory. Well there is one exception, The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020. This is poorly written and specifically refers to the 2018 (18th) edition of BS7671. So when BS7671 is updated it will be requiring compliance to an obsolete standard. It also does not apply to government or local authority properties….

Robert.

[Master of noneParticipant @masterofnone]

Qualified is a term often used in manufacterer's instruction and is in my opinion, somewhat meanlingless regarding electricial installation work.

The Electricity at Work Regulations states that

"No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work". In my opinion, this applies more to installation and testing work which needs to be carried out safely.

BS7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations requires:

"Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers' instructions."

Neither document stipulates the neeed to be qualified or the level of a qualification, except for a curious mention in BS 7671 of a "qualified electrian" in a sample notice regarding the temporary connection of a caravan to a plot supply point, It could be argued that a qualification may be evidence that an installer is "skilled" or "competent" but I have seen plenty of examples of individuals who have paper qualifications but whom could not be trusted to produce a safe installation unless thery are closely supervised. In addition, an electrician who is deemed competent to carry out domestic installations may not be competent to install systems in an industrial location.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Some time ago i made a few of these as a fun thing for company electricians and a few for electrical suppliers in the sheffield area

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Ian's 2000 amp fuse is what we used to start a tractor on one of the farms I worked on as a lad. The starter solenoid didn't work but a spanner across the contacts made it leap into life. This was haytiming, where everything that would move was pressed into service. One of the other tractors had to be hand cranked, not too bad if there were 2 of us as it had a decompressor, so one person would wind it up and the other could drop the decompressor at the right time. If you were on your own in was a 3 act circus involving a bit of baler twine attached to the lever.

All good healthy fun, and paid for my first motorbike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Master of none on 16/08/2023 17:04:21:

Qualified is a term often used in manufacterer's instruction and is in my opinion, somewhat meanlingless regarding electricial installation work.

…

It's not meaningless in a different way. Rather a lot of British Law is vague, not black and white, and it's left to the courts to decide what it means. Anyone likely to end up in the dock needs to think about their liability in the event of an accident.

Put yourself in the position of an employer faced with: "No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work". Thinking of saving a few bob by paying a 12 year old boy to upgrade all the fuses in a 415V switch-room? If so, consider what a Judge, Jury and Insurance Company would make of your decision it was appropriate for a child to do the work. Same applies to telling apprentices and other staff to tackle jobs outside their experience: if there's an accident, you could be found responsible. Gaol, fines, bankruptcy, reputational damage etc.

In this example, to avoid legal unpleasantness, employers have to be able to show that the Electricity at Work Regulations were applied responsibly. In the event of a prosecution how that's proved is down to the employer, but it helps to prepare in advance. Being able to show he employs people with paper qualifications, or relevant experience, and then provides training, suitable supervision, risk management and is health and safety aware goes a long way. An incompetent employer who used untrained staff to take ill-considered short-cuts and hasn't done anything to protect himself and his workers deserves all he gets.

It's an imperfect world. A certificate proves training was undertaken, not that the holder will apply what he learned. However, in the event of an accident, the employer is off the hook, and the man who failed to follow his training is in trouble.

I'm in two minds about whether or not blurry law is a good system. Doesn't help anyone who expects to be told exactly what's right and wrong in simple plain terms! Most people assume rules will be clear. Bad employers can get a good lawyer and argue the toss, often getting away with murder. Responsible employers apply it sensibly, achieving competent safe working by applying any of the many alternatives that best suit their circumstances. The assumption is most employers are responsible, and don't need to be inspected or policed.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/08/2023 19:42:17

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I don't know about fuse rating but this was my electric shower in Laos!

Mark P

[Author]

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