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[Allan WebsterParticipant @allanwebster78962]

Twelve years later and still functioning. However I must ask /plead with members NOT to use compressed air for blowing down it is a dangerous practice.

[Allan WebsterParticipant @allanwebster78962]

compressors

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Hi Alan

I suspect that you are referring to my recent post in the compressor thread referring to blowing down my bench.

Yes it can be a dangerous process if used without precautions and common sense, but used properly it is no more dangerous than any other workshop tool.

Ian

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

As per Ian, let’s not be so dogmatic on a generalisation.

It is only carelessly blowing compressed air ag your skin – and that would mean clothing, if you are wearing it. The danger is of compressed air getting under your skin.

There is a multitude of “blow-down” guns on the market. Perfectly safe if they are used for the function they were designed for (and not by some ——— inexperienced muppet).

Same as washing your hands – you would not use a pressure washer for that duty. I knew one fellow who was lucky to be alive after a loose water jetting gun (at 6000psi and 4(?) gallons per minute) cut him up quite seriously.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ian Hewson on 01/02/2022 11:24:40:

Hi Alan

I suspect that you are referring to my recent post in the compressor thread referring to blowing down my bench.

Yes it can be a dangerous process if used without precautions and common sense, but used properly it is no more dangerous than any other workshop tool.

Ian

Blowing down is a sacking offence in many workplaces!

Employers don't like it because blowing down is unnecessary and high risk. It blasts anything loose more-or-less randomly into machines, electronics, eyes and other delicate places. In comparison, wiping down or vacuuming is low risk because dirt is collected rather than dispersed violently.

Misuse of compressed air has a long history of avoidable accidents, most of them committed by chaps applying 'common-sense'. Unfortunately, there is no such thing.

Dave

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

You can get vacuum attachments for airlines which makes more sense – they are possibly more compact than a regular vac. I recently got an air bed pump from a skip which might be less dangerous for those that insist on the practice. The advantage I find with using a vacuum rather than a blast is that when I inadvertently do suck up a small thing I took two hours to make I know it is somewhere within a 1cu ft container not somewhere within a 500cu ft workshop.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Damm I've been using a 'dangerous practice' for 50 odd years. Seriously though everything we do in a workshop is dangerous so just manage it with knowledge & training, newbies are most at risk of hurting themselves with compressed air supplied by freely available compressors. I find compressed air a vital tool used constantly, just my opinion.

Tony

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Just for the record I use a pressure reducer and dust with a gentle force, not a blast.

If there is no such thing as common sense, what would you call not putting your hand into a moving cutter?

Ian

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

Interesting safety issue:
I scoop where I can, then vacuum where I can, and then blow away something more spesific if necessary with a reduced blow/flow setting for that outlet, it feels very soft on the hand setting.

So far I only blew out lathe chuck scroll, and cutting some threads, and through the chuck bore to the rear of lathe , with a downpype in rubbish drum.

Edited By Chris Mate on 01/02/2022 13:50:57

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I tried to avoid blowing down the lathe and mill for a long time, but I finally came to the realization that my machines would be forever dirty otherwise.

I use a lot of cast iron, and that dust goes everywhere.

I have read about the air driving dirt/dust into the ways, etc. but I can't say as I really see any problems from it.

I have reached the point where I would rather replace the equipment than have it dirty all the time.

Of course a good commercial dust mask is needed when blowing cast iron dust around.

I basically start at the top of the walls and work down until everything is on the floor, and then use the shop vac.

A crude but effective.

I found that a dirty shop is also a dangerous shop, and so I no longer leave any swarf laying around anywhere, but instead blow the machines off after each use.

But if I had expensive equipment, as some do, I would use the shop vac only.

.

Edited By PatJ on 01/02/2022 14:11:14

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just to say that proper 'puff guns' have an extra ring of holes that created a cone of air around the main blast and stop things being blown back at the operator.

Neil

[egaParticipant @ega]

Joe Pie's knurling video on YouTube showed the use of compressed air to remove the "debris"; short of a copious flow of suds, I can't think of a better way of doing this.

That said, I always clean down with brush and vac.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ian Hewson on 01/02/2022 13:23:35:

…

If there is no such thing as common sense, what would you call not putting your hand into a moving cutter?

Ian

We learn by experience, training and education. Experience painfully teaches children to be careful of sharp objects, but it's not enough to stop them wandering into roads, exploring railway lines, setting off home-made explosives, swimming in quarries, and climbing electricity pylons. All those things need someone to explain why they're dodgy. And adults are wise to get advice before ignorantly messing with pensions, mortgages, Nigerian princes and the stock exchange.

Aren't chaps who believe in common sense demeaning themselves? What most of us do in the workshop isn't what any dimwit should be able to do on auto-pilot! We actually problem solve by applying intelligence in the light of experience. Nothing built-in about it, what's often carelessly described as 'common sense' is probably a painfully acquired skill.

Worst of all, it's dangerous to assume others have common sense because it depends on experience and learning they might not have!

A good way of proving there's no such thing as common sense is to apply it to anything non-trivial you know nothing about. Soon be found common sense gets poor results compared with acquiring knowledge, thinking and experimenting.

Dave

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

I use my common sense and not write long pieces of waffle.

Ian

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Joe often uses a gentle puff to clear a vice of chips before repositioning a job, if I had air in my workshop I would do the same. As an apprentice blowing down was absolutely forbidden as was any fooling around with compressed air. One of the memorable warnings from the 3 day induction program was the compressed air safety. Pointing a 100psi airline at your skin could cause an embolism that could be fatal, Application of an airline to the rectum was also likely to result in death and I believe such an incident had occurred in the factory many years ago. Cleaning the weld spatter buildup from production jigs was done with a 200psi air blast with dry ice pellets, the noise is unbelievable and the chaps doing it would use foam earplugs and over ear defenders, leather gloves and a full visor and safety glasses and full dust suit hood and hat. The debris was blown out of the automated cells into the gangway where the cleaners would sweep it up with a ride on sweeper. This was a Saturday night job when only maintenance was being done and even if you had a job to do on the area being cleaned you would find something else to do as far away as possible from the area. A shop vac is a safe and effective way to clean machines and workshop after a rake and brush to clear the big stuff. Pick out all the bits you want to keep before they disappear up the vac though, I know this because if have had to go through the contents of the vac tub to recover bits and pieces.

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ian Hewson on 01/02/2022 17:06:59:

I use my common sense and not write long pieces of waffle.

Ian

Not persuaded then?

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

most of us have air in the workshop – the blow side of the shop vacuum cleaner !

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

No😁

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Common sense is mainly ‘thinking’ before doing something. That is a commodity in short supply with some.

BTW, with vacuuming anything, you won’t get more than about 14psi at the very tops. A vacuum cleaner achieves a few inches of Hg – unless their is no flow at all, I would suggest. Never checked but that is my guess on the subject.

I suppose a leaf blower id using compressed air to some degree?

That chap Common Sense died years ago. HSE took over the role about 50 years ago, so that (or because of) people (and employers) not thinking/bothering about their own safety.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by not done it yet on 01/02/2022 17:49:27:

…

BTW, with vacuuming anything, you won’t get more than about 14psi at the very tops. A vacuum cleaner achieves a few inches of Hg – unless their is no flow at all, I would suggest. Never checked but that is my guess on the subject.

…

True, but I find that with covering the majority of my crossslide T-slots with my hand, the vac will draw out practically all the swarf. Whatever fraction of a bar depression I get is perfectly adequate, followed with a wipe from an oily rag.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Allan Webster on 01/02/2022 10:25:06:

Twelve years later and still functioning. However I must ask /plead with members NOT to use compressed air for blowing down it is a dangerous practice.

Used with common sense it is not a problem. Been at it 65+ years now so I learnt when and where to blow. Some do some dont so whos to say who is correct. A bit like saying "dont put your finger in the 240v socket" or "dont stand next to your compressor tank because its likely to blow your leg off when it lets go".

regards

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Mick B1 on 01/02/2022 17:58:51:

Posted by not done it yet on 01/02/2022 17:49:27:

…

BTW, with vacuuming anything, you won’t get more than about 14psi at the very tops. A vacuum cleaner achieves a few inches of Hg – unless their is no flow at all, I would suggest. Never checked but that is my guess on the subject.

…

True, but I find that with covering the majority of my crossslide T-slots with my hand, the vac will draw out practically all the swarf. Whatever fraction of a bar depression I get is perfectly adequate, followed with a wipe from an oily rag.

I think you missed the point. 14psi is much less dangerous than possibly 150psi going the other way. I vac my T-slots and most of the floor, after clearing away most of what clogs the nozzle. It is the rate of air flow which clears the T-slots, not the vacuum per se.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by not done it yet on 01/02/2022 19:30:01:

Posted by Mick B1 on 01/02/2022 17:58:51:

Posted by not done it yet on 01/02/2022 17:49:27:

…

BTW, with vacuuming anything, you won’t get more than about 14psi at the very tops. A vacuum cleaner achieves a few inches of Hg – unless their is no flow at all, I would suggest. Never checked but that is my guess on the subject.

…

True, but I find that with covering the majority of my crossslide T-slots with my hand, the vac will draw out practically all the swarf. Whatever fraction of a bar depression I get is perfectly adequate, followed with a wipe from an oily rag.

I think you missed the point. 14psi is much less dangerous than possibly 150psi going the other way. I vac my T-slots and most of the floor, after clearing away most of what clogs the nozzle. It is the rate of air flow which clears the T-slots, not the vacuum per se.

Dunno. What I was trying to say is that I don't perceive any need for high-pressure air for machine cleaning, I agree that vacuum is very much safer, completely adequate, and therefore that's what I do!

Other people's requirements may be more exacting, of course.

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