Forum and now MEW Going downhill pointless article in MEW 335

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I use whatever system is handy. All my machines are Imperial, but the Hardinge HLV has got English/metric dials and the milling machine has got a DRO. So mixing and matching aren’t a great problem. I tend to think in thous and inches, but am reasonably flexible in that respect. Oddly, throughout my career, working with steam turbines, I thought in PSI and °C 🙁  . The cost of growing up in the transition form imperial to metric.

 

[stephen goodbodyParticipant @stephengoodbody77352]

As a recent contributor (The Eating of Elephants) and long-time reader of ME, I’ve been following this thread with interest and, while I agree with some of what’s been said and disagree with others, I think the key point – one worth reiterating – is that the editor can only publish what has been provided by we the people. That, rightly or wrongly, is a cold, hard fact.

To pick up on Vic Newey’s point, I too most enjoy ME when it covers a wide variety of topics and, at the risk of accusations of self-promotion, this was the motivation behind the Butterside Down articles set to begin in the next edition of the magazine.

As a foretaste, the topics presently covered by the Butterside articles range from semiconductor photolithography to workshop heating and cooling and touch upon measurement principles, traction engine draughting, model transportation, impact forces, workshop layout, raw materials storage, rust prevention, and a bunch of other topics along the way.

While I know that these won’t please everyone, I do hope that they will prompt an occasional smile and, together with Luker’s and the other contributor’s fine articles, add extra variety to your fortnightly read.

With best regards
Steve Goodbody

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

For a few reason’s and mostly monetary, I let my MEW subscription lapse for a number of years. But I had been subscribing from the very first one and found it well worth what it cost. And just to be clear, in no way should this be thought of as a personal attack against Neil. This is simply my perspective either right or wrong against whatever your own perspective happens to be. But it seems the majority of posts in this thread do mostly agree with my own thoughts. Simple logic indicates with the amount of criticism in this thread alone, then the magazine and this forum are in trouble.

Around early December of 2022 I decided to resubscribe to MEW because it was a magazine I always looked forward to every month in the past. Frankly and over the next year I saw very little of any real or usable interest other than the few articles Graham Meek and one or two others did. 3 articles for a basic wooden file rack in a row appear to be padded page fillers to me. In Canada, my costs for MEW work out to almost $100 per year. If the magazine doesn’t contain enough relevant information to make it even semi interesting or worthwhile, then for myself it’s not cost effective to keep subscribing. Even the index page some months had mistakes or incorrect page number information. Yes I fully understand the magazine is only as good as what’s being submitted, but maybe what makes it to a published article needs to a bit more stringent or demanding before it’s accepted? And in my opinion, some of it certainly needs to be researched by some of the authors a bit better.

I do think what we have today for amateur machining or model engineering forums almost certainly reduces what is being submitted by a lot. And I’ve watched the same content degradation happen within the pages of the American Home Shop Machinist and Machinist Workshop magazines as well. I will confess my opinions about what MEW seems to now be are formed from a large collection of books and magazines published in the UK from the latter part of the 20th century. Where have all the G H Thomas’s, Ivan laws, T D Walshaw’s, Arnold Throps types gone? Personalities and highly knowledgeable people like that haven’t gone extinct. And while the more entry level information is absolutely required, I think the ratio to that level of information verses the more advanced isn’t very well balanced in MEW at all.

Yes I understand technology has and is changing, but the hobby has always been about actual metal removal methods and techniques. 3D printers are no doubt now part of there own model engineering for a number of people, but again there’s been a bit too many articles and emphasis given to them over the last year. Printed plastic parts verses the challenges, strength and durability of metal holds zero interest for me other than possible prototype trials for anything fairly complex. It’s a bit more work and time consuming, but I’ve done exactly the same turning and milling wood to verify or double check a published design will work, or find any possible mistakes or dimensional errors before committing to metal.

As far as the metric verses imperial argument? That will never be conclusively solved here or anywhere else. I still think and visualize in imperial, but I also watch many machining videos on Youtube where metric is the only measurement system used. Since I can’t expect those people to cater to what I prefer, a simple cheat sheet for imperial to metric or visa versa takes less than 5 minutes to make and I keep one handy for that specific purpose. As far as converting one thread measurement system to another? BA, Imperial or Metric to any other is dead easy. Simply use the recommended tap drill size and find the closest tap drill equivalent in whatever thread pitch and diameter that’s of similar size that you’d prefer using or have the thread forming tooling available for.  If that metric / imperial or threading is such an obstacle as some seem to think, then have someone write an easy to understand conversion article for the magazine and also place it in these forums where it’s easy for those more entry level people to find or be directed to. I very much want these forums and the magazine to succeed and continue. But those in charge have to be willing to do there part as well for that to happen.

Afaik the forum moderation here is done on a volunteer and unpaid basis. Since world wide communication is so fast and easy today, why not gather up a dozen or so at least semi knowledgeable and hopefully unbiased people to help critique and fact check anything being considered for the magazine via simple group emails. Maybe give them a free digital subscription to MEW as a partial thank you. The costs to Mortons Books would be miniscule verses those extra and well thought out opinions about what should or shouldn’t be published or possibly corrected.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The following comments are a personal opinion and NO more !

The world we live in has changed to such an extent and at such a speed that it is difficult to keep up ! The written word has been overtaken by worldwide communication in an instant, in some ways this forum illustrates it ! Where as I would spend much time reading to find the answer to a question, now I can have an answer in seconds and a video to show it ! Having watched the way nit pickers and rivet counters have shot some here down in flames, I have not submitted an already written article for publication, add to that the same principles being applied to HS in the context of electrical and any matter where someone could be hurt then there seems no point in writing an article ! Who would read it when there are so many on line sources that are free ?

Petes comment on 3D printing, I left a 3D printed gear train in sunlight on a warm day only to later find a useless lump of plastic. A fasinating process never the less !

The wisdom of creating MEW one could discuss but in the current world if we are to have a magazine at all I feel it should reunite with ME ! To continue with both may see both fail !

A subscriber to ME for almost 50 years and to MEW till issue 311 when its content and cost could no longer be justified, my loyalty I have shown ? Noel.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

I think the key point – one worth reiterating – is that the editor can only publish what has been provided by we the people. That, rightly or wrongly, is a cold, hard fact.

Not a fact at all – a publisher’s decision.

As a Readly subscriber I have access to all Morton’s magazines & read most of the motorcycle related ones. All have staff who generate content, as well as some accepting submissions. But if readers of model engineering magazines are content to keep buying the current crop of magazines that rely upon readers submissions alone for content, then I suspect that the publisher will not change things. This I feel will eventually lead to their demise, as the customers will stop buying & the publication will become unviable.

I have in the past subscribed to ME, MEW, Home Shop Machinist & Machinist’s Workshop (both expensive for a UK resident). I gave them all up as the content level dropped to a standard that made them unattractive to me. Readly allows me to see ME. MEW, Engineering in Miniature and the German Maschinen im Modelbau, as well as have acccess to at least a couple of years of back issues. I say “see” rather than “read”, because non of them usually have much (if anything) of interest.

When I edited a national one make motorcycle club’s bi-monthly magazine several years ago I was largely at the behest of the membership for articles, though when faced with several empty pages I did end up having to generate some content myself. The easy way to fill those empty pages was to raid my own photo archive for pertinent pictures – 2 pictures filled a page ! But ME and MEW (and EiM, HSM, MW etc.) are not club magazines, even though they largely appear to be published as such now. It should not be up to the readership of a commercial publication to provide the content they pay for !

Periodicals appear to be a dying breed. Last year saw 2 of the 3 UK airgun magazines disappear & AFAIK all the American motorcycle magzines are now no longer published on paper & non appear to publish electronically with any regularity. The world has changed & I feel it is only a matter of time before “legacy” publications like ME and MEW disappear for good.

Nigel B.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

But ME and MEW (and EiM, HSM, MW etc.) are not club magazines, even though they largely appear to be published as such now. It should not be up to the readership of a commercial publication to provide the content they pay for !

 

 

… and that ^^^ is the crux of the matter

MichaelG.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I do feel now that those (participants, members, subscribers or whatever we are to be known as) that are left here on this forum are clinging on in the hope that somehow it will survive and return to the way it was before the Morton kamikazi upgrade.

Maybe we are witnessing the last gasps of a dying forum…

Ian P

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well not being into locos I’ve always had to put up with 90% of the content of ME not being of much interest to me though I have found less and less of the remaining 10% to be of interest over the last few years. Probably only read one article in the last couple of years. MEW I only flick through as I get the digital as a perk of being a moderator – strictly so I can answer queries on the mag or subscriptions you understand! But again seldom do more than have a quick look at the pictures. Same with MiM but that is more due to my poor German though the pictures and content are often better than out two titles.

As for subject matter it really depends on the individual what they will find of interset, I’d actually be more interested in 3D than a dozen photos of a club track or another Myford accessory. Having said that the “review” type articles seen recently in MEW are not so much of interest. Take the scanner one, it would have been better if the photos shown were more related to workshop use so rather than scanning Neil Action Man, what about scanning an awkward casting to then be able to print out a set of nesting jaws so it could be easily held. Or scanning that obsolete casting so a new pattern could be printed and a new casting made.

Maybe an article on choosing the correct filament would be useful, Neil would have to blag some samples from a supplier but the right article would perhaps enlighten people of the different options out there particularly with the latest crop of printers that can use materials with much higher melting points or reinforcing fibres that will be a lot more robust and heat resistant. Or go the opposite way to the extreamly lightweight foaming filaments that can be left in the sand and will burn out when the metal is poured much like polystyrene.

So who knows if we are still about in the next few years the question may not be what metal for my tee nuts but what fillament😉

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Jason,

Try using the Translate app on a smartphone to read MiM.

Set the app to translate from German to English and use the camera on the phone to frame the block of text you want to read (text usually on a tablet in my case) – after very few seconds the text changes from German to English. The translations usually read pretty well. I was just doing this on the latest edition of Motorrad & it makes reading a German magazine not that different from reading an English one.

Sadly the app does not generate suitably interesting content !

Nigel B.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’ll give it a go, I get MiM in paper form now though do have some of the yearly DVDs

[Charles LamontParticipant @charleslamont71117]

Graham – if ‘bought-in gismo’ means a microcontroller such as an Arduino, I found they are not really that difficult (but I already had C programming language). There is much help available, they and can be very useful for all sorts of things.

[mgnbuk]

On mgnbuk Said:

It should not be up to the readership of a commercial publication to provide the content they pay for !

Spot on!

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

what I think is being suggested is somewhat akin to academic journals which generally pass submitted articles to a couple of volunteer referees who comment on the contents – there may be some payment, possibly in kind, and for some journals in status amongst peers, for acting in this role.

The editor is supposed to drive the process, both in selecting input and also seeing what the readership are interested in and then tapping individuals who may be able to provide that material.

In many ways this MB was in the past an obvious source of potential suppliers of articles but maybe those who post here are not willing to write longer items. I briefly edited a genealogy journal though copy could be scarce often a prospective author could be persuaded to submit some outline which was capable of being slightly edited then fedback to provoke further specific queries and within a couple of passes an article was available and the author sometimes confident enough to suggest a further one.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Do you all think that most magazines only use staff generated articles? shouldn’t we look upon ourselves as freelancers?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Even the editors are freelancers.

Neil has been know to ask people on the forum if they would write up something they have posted about on here, that is basically commissioning an article. He also keeps asking me to write something again basically commisioning not sitting on his butt waiting to see what gets sent in.

Would be nice to have some editors comments in this thread though.

 

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

I’ve offered to write articles.  It merely requires me to complete a project – something which seems to take forever.

Whether it will be worth printing is yet another story!

And though the remuneration is hardly going to make you quit your day job, it’s a nice bonus if you were going to make the thing anyway, so in a sense it’s free beer.

Iain

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Well not being into locos I’ve always had to put up with 90% of the content of ME not being of much interest to me though I have found less and less of the remaining 10% to be of interest over the last few years. Probably only read one article in the last couple of years. MEW I only flick through as I get the digital as a perk of being a moderator – strictly so I can answer queries on the mag or subscriptions you understand! But again seldom do more than have a quick look at the pictures. Same with MiM but that is more due to my poor German though the pictures and content are often better than out two titles.

As for subject matter it really depends on the individual what they will find of interset, I’d actually be more interested in 3D than a dozen photos of a club track or another Myford accessory. Having said that the “review” type articles seen recently in MEW are not so much of interest. Take the scanner one, it would have been better if the photos shown were more related to workshop use so rather than scanning Neil Action Man, what about scanning an awkward casting to then be able to print out a set of nesting jaws so it could be easily held. Or scanning that obsolete casting so a new pattern could be printed and a new casting made.

Maybe an article on choosing the correct filament would be useful, Neil would have to blag some samples from a supplier but the right article would perhaps enlighten people of the different options out there particularly with the latest crop of printers that can use materials with much higher melting points or reinforcing fibres that will be a lot more robust and heat resistant. Or go the opposite way to the extreamly lightweight foaming filaments that can be left in the sand and will burn out when the metal is poured much like polystyrene.

So who knows if we are still about in the next few years the question may not be what metal for my tee nuts but what fillament😉

I do feel for the editors of these magazines, it’s impossible to keep everyone happy! Having said that, the published content is probably a good reflection of how healthy the hobby is at the moment, and I’m concerned…

I’ve never understood that viewpoint of ‘not interested in the content because I have no interest in locos’ when it comes to model engineering and specifically the ME magazines (I’ve seen this viewpoint a few times on the forum). Surely the development of new alloys for bearings, application of FEA to improve boiler design and materials, 3D printing for patterns, methods to make pressure gauges and pointers, or name plates using disused cell phone chargers etc. are of interest to all disciplines of model engineering? Novel ideas for manufacturing and design may be lost if you dismiss an article purely because it’s about a specific loco build. Having a grounding topic to describe various techniques through a build makes compiling a series much easier. Incidentally this applies to any subject in ME.

I personally prefer loco design because it adds a corrosion component and large working loads to test a design or concept. To be honest I am getting a little bored with loco’s, and may move over to the dark side… like an IC engine… 😉

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Unfortunately Luker I don’t see many other pushing the boundries in their loco articles, and yes I may lookat a bit that interests me but mostly there is not much new. I did use dto read loco builds when I was starting out, Kopple springs to mind and would read that in the college library when I was 16/17 with much to learn and some authors put a lot across and are worth reading others less so.

I was going to mention 3D patterns as those posts in the other thread may find their next set of castings were done with 3D prints. Anyway I think I have taken on new methods. I’ve Just got one more pattern to draw up and this lot will be off to the foundry

Ignore the poor flywheel casting I have CNC cut new alloy patterns

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Unfortunately Luker I don’t see many other pushing the boundries in their loco articles, and yes I may lookat a bit that interests me but mostly there is not much new. I did use dto read loco builds when I was starting out, Kopple springs to mind and would read that in the college library when I was 16/17 with much to learn and some authors put a lot across and are worth reading others less so.

Yep I agree. I find I enjoy the enthusiasm of a first time builder that puts pen to paper and describes his new found techniques. You and I probably won’t learn much but it can be nostalgic. I would like to see more novel ideas in ME though.

3D patterns are the way to go, and foundries are becoming more amenable to casting from these patterns. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I enjoy your builds, and follow them when I can, albeit silently…

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Having been let down with what file types can be attached on this new software so many opportunities have been lost both for the mags and the forum.

I would love to have been able to post DXF files and link from the article to them so if someone wanted to get parts laser cut they could. Or a STP file so anyone around the world could print up a pattern or CNC cut the part again from a file linked in the article to here.

I suppose it is wishful thinking that we will ever see the the two digital mags with active links, if a much smaller publication like Model Engine Builder can do it then why not a far bigger publishing house.  Just put links into an article for further references, files as mentioned above, products used, the list is endless.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Having been let down with what file types can be attached […]

I suppose it is wishful thinking that we will ever see the the two digital mags with active links, if a much smaller publication like Model Engine Builder can do it then why not a far bigger publishing house.  Just put links into an article for further references, files as mentioned above, products used, the list is endless.

No need to restrict it to the digital mags … QR codes would serve nicely for links in the print versions.

But please, editors, don’t make them half-page fillers !

MichaelG.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Even the editors are freelancers.

Neil has been know to ask people on the forum if they would write up something they have posted about on here, that is basically commissioning an article. He also keeps asking me to write something again basically commisioning not sitting on his butt waiting to see what gets sent in.

 

Would be nice to have some editors comments in this thread though.

Would be even better if we had some comments from the forum software team, especially in view of your last  sentence (in post 704733).

Ian P

 

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

Would be even better if we had some comments from the forum software team, …

Ian P

I doubt we we will see that anytime soon, Ian

It looks like they are desperately trying to just make the site ‘work’

… I suspect that the preferences for what it should be doing are tucked away somewhere ‘for future reference’.

MichaelG.

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

While LukeR, Jason and Neil are into 3D printing and all understand the requirements for a pattern to be useable, many don’t ! Having printed the pattern there is likely to be a lot more work before it will be usable ! A 3D printed article is NOT a pattern per se ! Having had many 3D ” patterns ” presented for casting with out this additional work, I stopped accepting them ! Buying a 3D printer doesn’t turn you into a pattern maker- you need to understand pattern making and the basics of molding and casting. That it has great potential is true, but it is not as simple as it might at first seem ! Noel.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Now that would make a useful article “Print to pattern” and the one before it “Part to pattern” to cover adding draft, shrinkage, cores, etc.

I have actually been thinking of one “Concept to Completion” or “All the Cs”. Taking a Fag packet sketch to a finished part, don’t know how well the CAD Design, CAM produced code, CNC pattern making, Casting and CNC machining of said casting would go down. With the 3D printer now in action I would have to include that as an option for the patterns but that would muck up the second title. too.

The newer software with variable layer height will certainly help reduce the amount of post printing needed to get a smooth pattern and the hotter printers can handle things line ABS which is easier to smooth. So hopefully gone will be the days where a print won’t pull out the sand as the sides are so rough and every layer of the print is reproduced in the sand/investment.

variable on the left, fixed layers on the right

[Author]

Posts