Fortis Vice

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

I just acquired this vice which I intend to restore and wondered if anyone knows what the original colour would have been?

Cheers

Roger

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Are you restoring it for a museum ?

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

No, just for my personal use and pride

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

This is going to add confusion, but… In the training dep't of the firm where I worked years ago we had Fortis vices that as the firm was almost obsessive with the care of tools and machinery I'm sure they had never been repainted.

Some were dark green, others were blue/ grey, I'm sure if they had been repainted they would have been in one colour. Interestingly there were a couple that had a split moving jaw that could be set to act like a V block for holding round bar vertically in the jaws ( these were green). I was kept on for a while to help clear the place after it closed and I found the original sales pamphlets and order letters in a file, believe they were made in Coventry, but this was late 70's so might have that wrong!. The place was set up just after WW2 but can't remember the dates on the orders.

Edited By Dave Wootton on 06/06/2022 17:29:58

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

I think Coventry is right. Mine is on my flogging/bashing bench, and has proved unbreakable under very considerable force.

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

Hi Dave, you're right, Coventry it is.

If I can't find the correct colour I might go with what I've got – Denham grey or Record blue

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Dave Wootton on 06/06/2022 17:26:22:

…the firm was almost obsessive with the care of tools and machinery…

Reminds me that Ettore Bugatti was said to be of the same mind and would sack workers whose vices showed the marks of careless work.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Graces Guide shows a Fortis Tool catalogue dated 1950, so this vice being marked Fortis Engineering suggests it was made by the precursor company before then, my guess is WW2 or earlier. It's not very early, because it's steel, not iron.

Before WW2 machines were mostly painted black, so the vice may be close to original already.

Early manufacturers favoured black because it didn't show the dirt thus saving a few bob in cleaning costs. Cleanliness became ever more important as manufacturing techniques improved and at about the same time bright colours and well lit comfortable factories were found to increase productivity. Colours started black, then grey became popular, later green and yellow, with a scattering of blues and a few isolated reds. I believe Green and Yellow is least tiring under fluorescent lights. Modern power tools come in glorious technicolour, partly because it looks good, and partly because it makes them easier to find.

Dave

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

Finding it difficult to get the history of the company but found this narrative on the VICES of Garage journal:-

Then there's these Fortis ones, which as far as I can see are the same as some of the Record vice's
Take a look, I don't know which came first or if during the second world war there were designs licensed for use by other companies?
I know that Coventry (the manufacturing base for Alfred Herbert/Ajax/Fortis) was extensively bombed during the second world war which might have caused their designs to be used in Sheffield. Or maybe Record used the designs as an influence for their own, that wouldn't be the first time either.Found thise on Graces Guide.

Fortis Engineering Co

of Norfolk Street, Coventry, and of 91 Station Street, Birmingham

Manufacturers of engineers vices.

Established 1900.

Seems to have kept going on into the 1960's

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Years ago, I had a Fortis Vice. It was donated to the the club.

From memory, it was painted a dark green, (Napier Green? )

Howard

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

What you might try is finding an obscure corner in which traces of the original paint hide. Clean it carefully with a plastic scourer and spot of meths or white-spirit and see what happens.

Failing that no-one's going to object to mid-grey or something near "Record Blue".

My old, American-made vice is of similar blue. My Denbigh H4 milling-machine seems originally to have been grey, under a tidying-up shade of light-green I'd given it, and that is what I re-painted it, a bit lighter than Myford Grey. (Just ordinary household gloss.) Drummond lathes were originally maroon, but that was probably unusual. .

I rescued one of those little Record drill-vices from its use in a grit-blaster (sacrilege) – so clean but no paint left. I repaired the broken keep under the moving jaw, and repainted it with primer and something near Record Blue by memory, in spray cans from Halford. It has rewarded me with good and faithful service since!

Working for a Govt. Dept. I noticed the small, clamp-on type Record Vices in our labs were all bright red. By special order perhaps?

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

More photos of my vice:-

The removable jaws are seized up and have been dosed with penetrating oil in an effort to remove them, watch this space

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Here you go, from the 1923 Buck and Hickman catalogue, but isn't featured in my next one of 1963

No mention of colour though

Bill

[egaParticipant @ega]

There are three Fortis vices shown in the 1964 B&H catalogue – the two shown by Rockingdodge and one other; I tried to post the third but couldn't get it the right way up!

As you say, no mention of colour in the monochrome catalogue.

Edited By ega on 07/06/2022 14:25:56

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by ega on 07/06/2022 14:25:11:

There are three Fortis vices shown in the 1964 B&H catalogue – the two shown by Rockingdodge and one other; I tried to post the third but couldn't get it the right way up!

As you say, no mention of colour in the monochrome catalogue.

Edited By ega on 07/06/2022 14:25:56

Well spotted, I really must drink more coffee before posting.

Bill

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It looks as if it was originally grey; but provided you treat it to something in the right spirit I doubt anyone will complain. Returning it to respectable appearance and mechanical condition is what really matters.

My present vice is a very old, American-made Parker; under the bench is a spare Paramo needing a new jaw. Both are mid-blue, similar to Record. So you won't go far wrong with mid-blue!

I like that juxtaposition of enormous great vices and delicate horological lathe.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

My previous post I think got lost. I was pointing out that wartime equipment was often unpainted or blackened to save paint for the war effort.

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

Posted by Jon Lawes on 08/06/2022 17:08:17:

My previous post I think got lost. I was pointing out that wartime equipment was often unpainted or blackened to save paint for the war effort.

I think you could be right as there seems to be no sign of paint but it's not that rusty, what I thought was heavy corrosion could well be an as cast finish!

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Rockingdodge on 08/06/2022 17:58:20:

Posted by Jon Lawes on 08/06/2022 17:08:17:

My previous post I think got lost. I was pointing out that wartime equipment was often unpainted or blackened to save paint for the war effort.

I think you could be right as there seems to be no sign of paint but it's not that rusty, what I thought was heavy corrosion could well be an as cast finish!

I'm another owner of a Fortis Steel vice (pictures coming soon…) and although I cleaned it up a while back I don't recall there being any paint to remove. And mine is "Ministry of Supply – Property of HM Government" if that helps indicate the age.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

AJAX,

Nice one, how did you restore it to it's current state, wire wheel?

Do you plan to make jaws for it to use?

Roger

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

Is this ok? It's the support for the shaft at the back of the vice, if not, as it's steel, it would be ok to mig weld to increase the thickeness and redrill the hole?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Rockingdodge on 09/06/2022 11:53:07:

Is this ok? It's the support for the shaft at the back of the vice, if not, as it's steel, it would be ok to mig weld to increase the thickeness and redrill the hole?

My advice is 'if it ain't bust don't fix it'.

Although you have a solid workman-like vice, I don't think the maker was overly concerned with the look of and finish of the innards. And even less time was wasted on War Production equipment unless operation was effected.

What matters is strength, alignment, and smooth operation of the moving parts, not the non-functional underbelly. Manky insides aren't unusual: whilst my Record is better than your Fortis, it's also rough where it doesn't matter.

Different story if the look is caused by extreme wear and the vice doesn't work properly because of it. In that case might be worth fixing.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/06/2022 12:39:35

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

The ovality indicates a rather hard life. My No.11 has superficial signs of very hard use, but no such wear.

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