For discussing the merits of alternative 3D CAD programs.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

That freecad link seems to direct me to ww7.freecad.org and says the name may be for sale. Anyone know what's going on or is it some side effect of my computer virus protection from the real site?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by ChrisH on 28/10/2018 22:16:47:

… I agree that 2D CAD is really just an electronic version of the old pencil and paper drawing stuff, and now I have got my head around the good stuff that 2D CAD offers I really like it.

However, I cannot get my head around 3D drawing. I have tried, especially when there have been so many comments that in designing the way to go is via 3D to ensure all parts fit and so on, and then just produce 2D constructional drawing. …

Like Andrew suggests, a good engineer thinks in 3D, but for the life of me although I do think in 3D, can sketch out my thoughts in 3D, when it comes down to drawing it out properly I can only think in 2D.

…

Don't beat yourself up Chris. Years of practice have left you expert at doing something that's not natural at all – translating 3D objects into 2D drawings. You only think it's 'easy' because you're used to it.

The problem is that what you know about 2D drawing is so deeply embedded that it subconsciously intrudes when trying to learn 3D. It's a double whammy – painfully learning a new trick while equally painfully ignoring old truths that are unhelpful in this context. It's hard!

Very easy to dismiss the new way as too complicated or daft, or 'not for me', or even "I'm stupid". There's no easy answer. You have to persist and take baby steps while learning the basics. When I get stuck, I find it helps to consciously reject how I think stuff should work in favour of asking or looking it up. This is because what I think is often wrong, even though I'm convinced I'm always right. The main thing is not to be discouraged. Keep at it, don't take short-cuts, and after a while it will make much more sense. On the other hand, if 3D turns out to be too much trouble, don't regret walking away either.

Dave

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Bazyle – **LINK**

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Bazyle – Here is FreeCAM video also if you want to machine.**LINK**

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Better intro to FreeCAM :- **LINK**

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well the card arrived and I fitted it but its got some goofy video connection

So its another week while I wait for a DMS-59 to VGA connection (sigh)

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Onshape. While it can be a bit slow for really complicated assemblies it has the advantage that it is free and, as it runs within a browser, it works on Windows, Linux, and OSX. It is produced by an ex Solidworks team and I find it very easy to use having first learned 3D CAD on Solidworks about 18 years ago.

Although I also have Fusion 360 installed Onshape is my goto program.

Any other views on it?

Russell

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Russel – Thanks for the Onshape reminder. Have not used it for some years. it has come on leaps and bounds. It is now almost second nature to a Solidworks exponent. Excellent

[HOWARD minchinParticipant @howardminchin82425]

I have been using TurboCad Deluxe for many years now, so I thought that this AA3D trial would be a good opportunity to compare both software packages. As everyone does the most important question is, how much money is this going to cost me after the trial period? To my surprise nobody seems to know! MEW doesn’t state it anywhere in the article! Nor does the internet site of Alibre. If you click on ‘Buy Now’ on the site, nothing happens!

Is this again a case of getting us interested in a package and then slamming us with a cost of hundred of US dollars! They say it has been designed with the hobbyist in mind, but has the price?

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:40:25

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

£199 for licence only, £279 including maintenance according to the Mintronics website -they are the resellers in the UK.

https://www.mintronics.co.uk/webshop

Edited By Nigel Bennett on 14/11/2018 11:23:27

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:40:06

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I got a copy of Turbocad (2D) about 20 years ago. The probability of it working on my current computer is ……nil. Certainly the computer it was on (a 286) died and the Pentium did too, well it's 2Gig disc did and replacements that small weren't available.
So maybe it will still be able to run on my new computer when this one dies in 5 years. Perhaps I will get 10 years use which is £20 per year but more likely only 7 years so say £25pa or 50p per week. Unlikely to use it more than once a week so every time I click on it will be 50p.
In perspective although 50p a week used to be a lot in my youth now it is way cheaper than TV tax and just 1% of my petrol bill. Although it is stand alone I'm sure internet connectivity will be an effective essential and that may well actually cost more than the license.
However I'm not convinced myself yet as I would be very reluctant to spend more than £100 on a bit of tooling apart from the obvious big ones of Mill and lathe and they are solid metal that doesn't go 'poof' or melt away in 7 years.

 

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:39:49

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You don't even need to go as far as Mintronic's webshop, says it in the summary of AA3D here bottom of page or click the "pricing" shortcut

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:39:31

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

The Atom version is pretty well cut down, so check the comparison table carefully. The Pro and Expert versions are £940 and £1540 respectively and if you want to use any of the non-basic features, that's what you'd be looking at.

And £475 for a basic 2.5D CAM option, described as "A modelling and milling package tailored for sign makers, hobbyists, makers and students". Not much use if you put it up against modern multi axis packages. The Fusion CAM is actually HSMWorks, used professionally in many sectors. If you plan to get into CNC at any time, think about it now.

Once you've got the hang of one of these CAD systems, it's not difficult to learn another one. However, I wish I hadn't had to go through the process so many times along the way, each time investing dozens of hours in the process.

Despite the shallow accusations of tribalism, I'd suggest you take a look at Fusion 360 which will cost you nothing and is a very capable, professional system, with full feature 3D CAD, simultaneous multi axis CAM, FEA simulation (stress, thermal, vibration etc), rendering, sculpting, sheet metal, 2D drawing etc.

Right, I'll duck again now…

Murray

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:39:13

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Howard

If you are in the USA you will get a better deal than offered in the UK . seems they still charge the same amount + VAT in £'s as the US$, I know the £ is weak but not 1:1

I have been using Alibre for about 10 years and find it does 3D modelling to suit my demands.

Emgee

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:38:53

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Murray,

I've been using TC Deluxe myself for many years. I upgraded to TC/DL 2016 last year from TC/DL 2015 – which still ran OK under Windows 10 but did suffer the occasional (but recoverable) hiccup. I purchased 2016 for £20 at the Midlands ME show last year and it runs very under W10 – with all my old drawings (going back years) still opening fine – although I always save them to the latest TC TCW file format whenever I access them.

I think that over nearly 20 years – I have probably only actually paid out about £50 in total (for Versions 2016, 2015, v9 & v4) – the first one (v4) being a magazine freebie. That seems pretty good value to me for what is an excellent 2D CAD system.

I've used TC/DL DXF files for laser cut parts BTW – and haven't had any problems or complaints – but it does pay to check your drawings for 'finger' trouble first…..

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 14/11/2018 13:44:31

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:38:26

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The goofy bit arrived today, I fitted it and it loaded up for both XP and Win7

The Win7 is 64bit which you will need for these new fangled CAD offerings

Something failed in the Win7 drivers installation (no surprise there then eh)

XP is fine, Designcad still works ok

Win7 64 bit now runs Fusion 360 ok

I used this video card for a tenner

and this video adaptor for a fivah

So you CAN upgrade from a steam powered system if you want to

GL

EDIT You will need a PCI-e connection on your motherboard to do this stuff

If in doubt. Ask.

Edited By Ady1 on 14/11/2018 15:10:32

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by HOWARD minchin on 14/11/2018 10:46:51:

I have been using TurboCad Deluxe for many years now, so I thought that this AA3D trial would be a good opportunity to compare both software packages. As everyone does the most important question is, how much money is this going to cost me after the trial period? To my surprise nobody seems to know! MEW doesn’t state it anywhere in the article! Nor does the internet site of Alibre. If you click on ‘Buy Now’ on the site, nothing happens!

Is this again a case of getting us interested in a package and then slamming us with a cost of hundred of US dollars! They say it has been designed with the hobbyist in mind, but has the price?

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2018 15:40:25

Howard, if you are in the US it will cost less than in the UK, the US$ cost gets converted 1:1 to GB£'s then 20% VAT added..
Emgee

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Since it was mentioned in this thread. I have been trialing "Onshape" the free option for hobbyists. It the most intuitive parametric 3D system I have come across, and I have used many. The learning curve is rapid and the Tube video`s are most comprehensive. If you are currently looking to start or looking for a fully featured system for nothing, Including the option of Parasolid Cam. You would not regret spending an hour or two getting to know this programme.

Usual disclaimers.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Interesting. I was a beta tester for Onshape back in Feb 2015 and found it quite a refreshing alternative to the premium priced alternatives I had access to at the time (Solidworks and Solid Edge). In many respects it's rather like Fusion 360, particularly in terms of the interface and the "joints". It was actually set up by the team who originally implemented Solidworks, so they knew a thing or two about CAD.

The aspects that put me off were the limitation on the size and number of files you could work with before requiring the professionally priced subscription and the cost of the plug-ins. Unlike Fusion, the core product is CAD only and they rely on 3rd parties to provide "connectors" to their programs. So for CAM, they have connectors to the likes of Sprutcam, Mastercam, Visualcam etc. However, these are professionally priced and the closest I found to being affordable back then was Sprutcam at a cool £1000 a pop. Coupled with the cost of the cheapest subscription, that was pretty steep for hobby use and I've also tried to keep an eye on being able to access my work in the future, having created work in a few different systems.

What Onshape and Fusion have in common is a subscription only system, which removes much of the barrier to first users. Companies like Solidworks, Autodesk Inventor etc insist on not only an eye-watering initial purchase price but also an eye watering "maintenance" contract which has to be maintained if you want technical support and the critical updates and "patches". They get really grouchy if you drop the support and won't reinstate it later unless you make the missing interim payments. Sheer greed. However, it opened the way for subscription products that seem to cost less than the maintenance payments.

I can't actually see a CAM plugin called Parasolid CAM in the Onshape app store – is there a link to it somewhere?

Murray

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Sincere apologies. I got confused with too much online trawling. It is VisualCAMc that is available for Onshape and not Parasolid CAM.

Sorry

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I have used CAD for thirty years. Starting with AutoCad version 9 in 1988 on an 10mhz DOS machine with all of 10mb hard disk. Then onto Mechanical Desktop, also from Autodesk, which I found very good in 1998. Then onto Inventor when Autodesk bought out another company for its 3D core software and dropped MD. I then stuck with Inventor for business use and contracted for a few years, finding that I had to teach my new employers draughtsmen how to use it. The reason for this missive is that there is no one CAD answer and until you have used a product for a number of years you cannot know what it is capable of. I have worked alongside people using Solidedge and others because that is what a customer wants them to use, but at the end of the day the 3D model or drawing created still contains the same information just in a different file format. Most people give up with software of any kind because it appears complicated and they try to run before they can walk. While creating macros to do something can automate a process the same can be done without knowing about macros, but some people want to try to create them and then struggle to do the basics because of it.

My answer to all computer users is start simple, don't be looking to recreate the models we have seen elsewhere on this forum in sometime soon. Just be able to create a few simple pieces in the software you have and slowly learn one thing at a time. Build on skills you learn with the software you have and ignore everything else. There will always be someone who says mine is better than yours because, but ask them what else they have used and for how long.

I'll stick with Fusion 360, as its free and does what i want.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I made a video of a simple toolpost that a beginner could tackle in MoI.

 

 

 

 

Edited By blowlamp on 24/11/2018 22:02:53

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Tried many over the course… Pro E [ Creo ] Solidworks, Ironcad, Fusion 360, before settling on Siemens Solidedge. did get a try of Siemens NX but far far to powerful for me to learn. I also have Alibre Expert which was my first Cad programme purchased when it was Alibre Design circa 2006. [ still on Maintenance as I like Alibre ]. Solidedge would be my favourite though. [ would have been even better had it been free ] 

Edited for typo.

Edited By Raymond Anderson on 25/11/2018 06:23:54

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

This quick video shows how the Flow tool works in Moi, by wrapping some text around a cylinder. The numbers text uses the surrounding surface as a reference and this reference is then mapped around the cylindrical surface along with those numbers.

Where you click on the cylindrical surface should be similar to where you click on the reference surface as MoI uses those positions to orientate the direction of Flow.

Almost any shape can be flowed across any surface or curve.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Excellent videos Blowlamp, I must admit that I have used the trial version of MOI and found it very user friendly and very capable, in fact it was the only cad package that I could produce a tube with various internal diameters.

The one thing that lets it down in my opinion, is a lack of tutorials (unless I have missed something?)

[Author]

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