Flexispeed Mk/Simat 101 Owners – What Motor Size Are You Using?

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

Hi

My recent acquisition (a Flexispeed Mk 2 for restoration) came with an electric motor.

But at 1/3HP it seems far more powerful than needed, especially as I will be using this for clock parts. Also, the physical bulk and weight of that motor means it won't really be practical to mount the whole setup on a small portable bench top cabinet.

So, I am wondering what size motors others have used successfully with there Flexi/Simat 101 lathes?

I will be driving this using the 5" driven counter shaft that came with the lathe but currently thinking of using a 1/4HP or possibly 1/6HP motor instead.

Andy

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

I have a Pultra 1770 to which I have fitted one of the Brushless DC motors, with its electronic speed controller, that are being sold on embay for as little as £83. These are sold as upgrades for Industrial sewing machines as a virtually plug and play unit. The motors are about 4 inch cube and rated at 3/4 HP. This may sound excessive but the physical size makes it very attractive and you don't have to use the power. The main advantage they have is variable speed and phenomenal torque so no need for belt/pulley changing so you could dispense with the countershaft.

In my case the motor and controller are compact enough for it to all be fitted to the lathe base (see my pictures).

There are other smaller BLDC motors and controllers that work from 24V but these are far more expensive and certainly not plug and play.

CS

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

My Flexispeed lathe was supplied with 1/4HP 1425 rpm motor when I bought it from the Norfolk Lathe & Tool Company in the mid 1970's. It has been more than adequate for everything I required.

Recently, as a backup, I bought a 1/6HP 1380 rpm motor. At sometime in the future I may swap them over to make the lathe and motor setup a little smaller and less heavy to move around.

Remember, the Cowell lathe, which is a similar size, only has a 90watt (approximately 1/8HP) 1425 rpm continuously rated motor.

It depends what you can find at a reasonable price.

Neil

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Posted by Andy_H on 31/07/2023 07:56:11:

Hi

My recent acquisition (a Flexispeed Mk 2 for restoration) came with an electric motor.

But at 1/3HP it seems far more powerful than needed, especially as I will be using this for clock parts. Also, the physical bulk and weight of that motor means it won't really be practical to mount the whole setup on a small portable bench top cabinet.

So, I am wondering what size motors others have used successfully with there Flexi/Simat 101 lathes?

I will be driving this using the 5" driven counter shaft that came with the lathe but currently thinking of using a 1/4HP or possibly 1/6HP motor instead.

Andy

I use a 120w (1/6hp) motor on my Flexispeed Meteor 2 and it is quite adequate. The belts slip long before the motor shows any signs of stalling. It came from e-bay for about £20.00.

James.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I might be encouraged to sort out, and modify, one of my old battery powered variable two speed screwdrivers (dead NiCads) by replacing the trigger with a remotely mounted potentiometer/rheostat and drive it from a suitable power supply.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I used a 1/6 HP induction motor on mine. When sizing the pulleys don't forget that the manufacturer's recommended top speed is only 1000 rpm.

Rod

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 01/08/2023 21:04:06:

I used a 1/6 HP induction motor on mine. When sizing the pulleys don't forget that the manufacturer's recommended top speed is only 1000 rpm.

Rod

I got the size of the pulleys a little wrong when I made my mine. It has a top speed of about 750rpm, but it is plenty and gives a good, powerful low speed, especially with the backear engaged.

 

James

Edited By James Alford on 01/08/2023 22:14:07

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The motor is more powerful than needed, but I'm not convinced it's worth changing it.

Deliberately putting a monster motor on a power tool seems stupid to me because it suggests the owner wants to force the pace. He assumes that the machine's safety factor will accommodate the abuse. Unfortunately overstressing the drive train, bearings and frame causes rapid wear, and the extra-power will cause more damage if there's a crash. As it takes time for trouble to appear, it may take a few years for the owner to realise he's blundered. In the meantime, ignorance is bliss!

But as the motor has already been fitted, and 1/3HP isn't outrageously over the top, I'd be inclined to live with it. The important thing is not to use the power by persistently driving the lathe hard. Driven sedately in the ordinary way, the motor will only deliver enough power to do the job – something under 100W rather than the >250W a 1/3HP motor could output if the operator pushed it.

Rather than relying on a small motor to reduce damage, the operator takes full responsibility and doesn't drive like a maniac. Most of us, I believe, learn fairly quickly that impatient gorilla tactics don't work well on hobby machines! Stripped gears, brushes burning out rapidly, fried electronics, smoking motors, knackered bearings, worn out nuts, poor finish and poor accuracy all suggest an excessively heavy-handed operator. Results and the life of the machine both improve if the operator backs off into the machine's comfort zone: patience rather than brute force. One of the reasons new professional machine tools are six to thirty times more expensive than hobby equivalents, is they are sized to work flat-out 24×7, and cope better with brutality. Used to the full, even they only last about 5 years before needing a major rebuild.  Used gently, they last for ever!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2023 10:42:57

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

Just out of interest, the pulleys that were supplied with my Flexispeed lathe gave spindle speeds of approximately 1420, 815, 460, 355, 203, 115.

I really only used the top speed for drilling holes, all the turning was done at the lower speeds.

With regard to the power, I found sharp tools were more significant than the actual power available. My safety limiter was using a sightly loose belt from the motor which would slip if I overdid a cut or had a dig in, might be frowned on by some, but it always worked for me.

Neil

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

Posted by James Alford on 01/08/2023 22:13:03:

I got the size of the pulleys a little wrong when I made my mine. It has a top speed of about 750rpm, but it is plenty and gives a good, powerful low speed, especially with the backear engaged.

James

Edited By James Alford on 01/08/2023 22:14:07

Coincidentally I've calculated the pulleys currently available with this set-up will give a countershaft speed of about 350 rpm and lathe speed options of 178, 365 and 756 rpm – so will need a slight mod there.

Andy

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2023 10:41:06:

The motor is more powerful than needed, but I'm not convinced it's worth changing it.

Thanks for all the replies.

On the point of the original motor. I accept it's not over the top in terms of what the lathe is designed for (interestingly I see the manual for the Meteor 2 specifies a motor of "450W minimum&quot.

But had two reasons for considering changing it: 1) it's more than I believe I need for what I intend to use the lathe for and 2) the bulk and weight of the current motor. Weighing in at 9KG that existing motor certainly leads to limitations with regard to the whole assembly being "easily moved around and stored".

Based on all the replies I think I will keep on the look-out for a used motor 1/6HP motor. When it comes to ebay it's a bit of a proverbial "needle in a haystack" search but I might strike lucky one day!

Andy

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andy_H on 04/08/2023 15:56:59:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2023 10:41:06:

The motor is more powerful than needed, but I'm not convinced it's worth changing it.

…

But had two reasons for considering changing it: 1) it's more than I believe I need for what I intend to use the lathe for and 2) the bulk and weight of the current motor. Weighing in at 9KG that existing motor certainly leads to limitations with regard to the whole assembly being "easily moved around and stored".

…

Andy

Perfectly reasonable Andy, and it's refreshing to find someone wanting to sensibly downsize their motor. More usual for testosterone fuelled folk to insist on upgrading a poor old Super Adept to 3HP and 6000 rpm,

I exaggerate slightly, but the notion more power must be better is very common. There's no need – painting a go-faster stripe on the stand massively improved my lathe!

Dave

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

Posted by Clive Steer on 31/07/2023 08:34:26:

I have fitted one of the Brushless DC motors, with its electronic speed controller, that are being sold on embay for as little as £83.

Is this the sort of thing Link you are referring to?

Another option I came across in my hours of searching ebay is this brushed DC motor package. I wonder if anyone has any thought, or indeed experience, of this offering?

BTW, I considered all the suggestion made by those that have replied to my threads on these matters. I originally dismissed the advice to go down this route due to my preference to keep the whole setup sort of representative of its origin (countershaft and all). But I also one of my key objectives is to make this whole setup as compact as possible and easily stored/moved. What I've come to realise in the past week or so is these two aims aren't compatible and with compactness being my main objective I am now eating humble pie and changing my mind!

Andy

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

Andy

No need to eat humble pie as all part of the learning curve.

I have no experience of the BLDC motor and controller shown in your first link and at face value it may be OK. This will probably be shipped directly from China.

I have bought and used the Jack BLDC motor and controller and one marketed as a Tansew. Both of these were from UK stockists. Both of these were well made but I thought the Jack one the best but the UK ones are more expensive but you know what you are paying with no extra "handling/duty " payment surprises.

The Brushed motor and controller in your second link I have no experience of but I wanted brushless because they are quieter and the electronics provides servo speed control. Also the Jack type controllers comes plug and play so only the mechanics to sort out.

Although the brushed motor appears to have a UK stockist, I believe, this is an agent or accommodation address as right at the bottom of the listing it shows a Chinese address. I have found this recently in many eBay listings with the same product sold at different prices and by apparently different UK sellers. However on closer study they all appeared to come from the same Chinese supplier.

On a recently bought BLDC motor the apparent seller was 20 miles from me but it took over 3 weeks for it to arrive so beware. In this case I should have read his feedback comments as someone had had a similar experience. Luckily it turned out OK and the motor was of good quality and value for money.

If you live anywhere near Hastings by all means come and have a look at my Pultra set up or we could arrange video conference session.

CS

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Another option I came across in my hours of searching ebay is this brushed DC motor package. I wonder if anyone has any thought, or indeed experience, of this offering?

Andy, I bought one of these Brushed DC motors from this supplier a few years ago for use on my Taig lathe. There are some details of the installation here

Taig V2

The supplier is in the UK and a nice guy. He told me these are/were spares for a vibration plate they sell/sold but have never been needed. Mine came with a sophisticated PWM driver board ( and a remote control!) which he no longer seems to sell. I have tried mine with one of the controllers he now supplies, but the one I had ( not from him but looks identical) made the motor noisy – The controller has 100hz spikes on the output which the motor turned into noise.

With a decent controller it was a nice motor. Good torque down to about 400rpm. However it is fairly big and got in the way on the lathe – so I swapped it out for a brushless motor which is quite a bit shorted and lighter.

[Richard BParticipant @richardb44403]

Andy,

I have also used that supplier and had good service, I decided I would rather have a plastic enclosure for the controller and sourced the one in the pics.

Its actually an old early Perris lathe that I use to touch up lathe tools etc.

[DiodeDickParticipant @diodedick]

My Norfolk (nee Flexispeed) 2 x 12" lathe was driven by an open frame washing machine motor of unknown parentage from a workmate's "this might come in handy, some day" pile. I did not record any name plate details from the motor, possibly because there was none. Remember that this was in the mid-70's and rules were different then. I did note that the belts were Z500's. With the motor and countershaft mounted on a board, the motor bounced, as noted in earlier posts. I minimised that with a suitable block of wood under the board – this left the belts tight enough not to slip in normal usage, but able to slip on a dig-in. DC motors and electronic speed control? How times have changed, for the better.

Dick

[Andy_HParticipant @andy_h]

Posted by Richard B on 10/09/2023 13:02:02:

Andy,

I have also used that supplier and had good service, I decided I would rather have a plastic enclosure for the controller and sourced the one in the pics.

Its actually an old early Perris lathe that I use to touch up lathe tools etc.

Thanks for all the replies on this.

I think I'm down to two options. 1) the brushed motor kit in my earlier post or 2) the Jack servo motor Clive pointed me towards. As I currently see it both have their different advantages and "disadvantages"..

I like the relative simplicity of the brushed motor kit coupled with the relatively simple and easily replaced electronics should that unit fail. On the other hand, the maximum speed (since the lathe shouldn't be run above 1000 rpm) needs to be controlled by pulley selection and/or a position limiter on the potentiometer. The fact that torque is reported to be good down to around 400rpm suggests the optimum set-up might be to arrange pulleys so as to achieve minimum lathe speed at a motor speed to 400rpm.

On the other hand I like the Jack (or similar) servo motor option as I believe these can be programmed to limit maximum speed, which eliminates the need to implement something separate to prevent speed being set too high for the lathe. Also, as I understand it, the exact required speed is achieved by programming (setting) the required speed rather than having to calibrate positions on a potentiometer dial. But, the electronics are far more complex/specific to the motor so if they fail (maybe rare occurrence I know) one is probably more reliant on the original supplier.

Richard B – particularly interested in your reply as I was scouring the Internet yesterday afternoon looking for alternatives to the brushed speed controller provided in that kit and, coincidentally, the one I homed-in on was the unit you are using (with delivery from UK stock). So, it's good to find someone that has used that. Reason I was looking for an alternative to the supplied unit was: 1) because of the 100Hz noise problem Peter Cook mentioned and 2) I wasn't convinced it looked sufficiently robust. Does your unit eliminate the 100Hz spike problem. Also, does it dissipate a lot of heat – I wondering if it would be cope with being enclosed or whether it needs free air-flow all round?

So, as always there are choices! I've not yet decided but currently slightly favouring the brushed motor kit (with later replacement of the controller).

But, in the short term, a moment of common sense struck over the weekend. As this project is restoration of a newly acquired lathe which I have never used it occurred to me it was probably sensible to get it set-up with the original hefty motor and counter shaft to confirm there's no issues with the lathes before I spend money on a replacement motor! It will only be a very temporary lash-up (very literally) to get the lathe spinning – started over the weekend but a bit more to do.

Andy

[Richard BParticipant @richardb44403]

Hi Andy,

The motor supplier was very good – I had an issue with the metal speed controller on delivery and he replaced it immediately with many appologies.

I didn't like the open nature of the metal controller – even shielded etc and found the 'boxed' one I have used.

It comes mounted in a plastic enclosure on all sides with only very small vent holes on the rear where the wires connect.

I can't comment regarding '100hz' noise as I'm not really up on electrics and I don't recall any noise.

I boxed in the headstock – a bit like my Cowells to keep grit/dirt out and installed larger oil feed fillers to the headstock bearings as it only had drilled holes previously. the little hinge on top gives access without taking the encasure off.

The pics seem to go where they want to – not at the bottom of post !

I'm down the coast from Bristol if your are local.

When you decide I can look up the ebay listing for the controller – they came very quickly -couple of days – but I think it was a chinese local supplier.

Richard B.

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