Fitting Ikea Kitchen Units – Me workshop wall is on the way.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I just picked up the ceiling metalwork. Ideal for model engineers. Metal stud work for walls is available from the same source so the info may be of use. I found a couple of places that sold the metal work in pieces or seemed to but one turned out to be a mail order business that just ordered up from some one else. Wonderful web pages and business name. I found a real supplier eventually.

This is the ceiling system – more or less. There are lots of variations but all are basically the same.

 

The instructions vary too. I wont be installing the hangers like that. Also different spacings are mentioned. I had been given the impression that the angle used for the hangers could only be bought in packs. Way way too much for me but it turns out that they do sell those in singles so they gave me a length. Nice lady in the sales dept.

 

It looks long winded but jointing and cutting the timber is too and metal is about 1/2 the cost. Maybe I should have used metal stud on the wall too.

 

John

–

 

 

 

Edited By Ajohnw on 23/11/2016 11:56:01

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

LOL. It's a good job I have been saving my pennies, rather a lot of them for this job. I've been a bit bit bugged about getting the ceiling level especially the rails that go round the wall. Then there are several aspect that need levellng on the kitchen units, no problem with that really. Plus as I have knocked through a wall and both have poured concrete floors I'm likely to need a bucket or so of floor levelling compound but how much and where etc.

Just found a solution. I used to think of it as an Ebay hire. Buy cheaply off ebay, use it and then sell it on ebay when I've finished. Buying of ebay isn't so good these days. I've found a decent deal on a Bosch PL 360 laser leveller. It does all 4 walls in one go. The retailer also offered a discount voucher code so found one of those which added another 10% off.

A bathroom is part way through a refurb too, Can't finish until the pipes to the kitchen are installed plus I'd like to move a radiator in there – not the time to do it. Too cold. I can use it to level the tiling so it might be a long hire. A bit ott though.

Laugh even louder – how the hell do I get it 2.8m off the floor. I have a dingy mast somewhere. Might do.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 23/11/2016 14:00:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You don't need to have it in the middle of the room just screw a bit of timber to the wall and stand it on that. Or just stand it on the blockwork wall which does not go to ceiling and measure down from that. Or use it to give a datum line at say 1.0m high and then cut a bit of batten 1.8m long, hold that on the datum and mark the wall at the top of the batten.

Simple homemade water level would also have done the job.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The thing that convinced me Jason is that I can arrange for it to mark out all of the lines I need just by setting it's height. I could do most of them on a photo tripod which I have. It has the usual 1/4" screw socket in the base. It can also lay a line each side of the remaining bit of wall. The best other option for that sort of thing would be a water level. I think one of the suppliers I mentioned do a kit to save messing about finding suitable piping.

What I probably will do is mark out the heights on the end of the projecting wall I'm currently plaster boarding and mount it on that.

I was laughing when I posted as yes it's excessive but convenient and using it will probably cost me hardly anything at all. It will also make it very quick and easy to see what needs doing to the floor. It might need buckets and buckets of leveller.

As the pro's use fancy laser levels I just started nosing around, noticed the water level kit and also this unit so decided to go for it. I have a decent rather long level and a long straight edge but either would be a much quicker way of doing it.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 23/11/2016 17:41:29

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

This is the water level kit

**LINK**

Slightly cheaper at toolstation and probably available elsewhere..

I very nearly went for it because it's very easy to mark off points at the same level. A chalk line can also help afterwards but I think I can manage without.

Bit of a cost saving.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I found these for fixing the hangers to the joists. They look useful for other things – wooden benches, general fixings etc.

**LINK**

Why it was hard to resist

 

John

–

 

Edited By Ajohnw on 23/11/2016 20:58:59

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The PLL 360 arrived today. OTT but it took seconds to check the run out on the piece of timber I put on the end of the what's left of the removed wall. Wickes piece of CLS has about 1/16" bow come wobble along the length of it's edge. Should take it back. The part I set vertical with a 1m level is fine. I had checked that the level was ok by reversing it.

When I set the front face vertical I know it was a fraction of a bubble out. I'd cut bricks so couldn't expect it to be dead true. I know now there is about 1/2" run out over 3m. It can stop like that. I would probably packed it out if I had bought it initially.

A quick check of part of the floor shows I have circa 15mm to take care of. Not so good on this as the beam widens so it's best used centrally and I can't at the moment. A water level would be more precise. I don't think I will be able to do anything about the floor until the units are in place. It will be very handy for presetting their height from the floor.

Worth it price wise? I'd say it is compared with a branded pure cross hair one if there is a need to level around corners etc. It comes with a small height adjustable mount that can be hung on a pin driven into a wall. It appears to self level by allowing the working bits to float. Not sure on that score. It can also be locked to set angle with something else.

Considering the amount that can be paid for these things it looks to be a bit of a bargain really.

I should finish the irritating bit of plaster boarding on the remaining bit of wall tomorrow. The adhesive works well so will do the lot in one go. A gas fitter arrives soon to install a new cooker point. Gas will be coming from the upstairs circuit so the downstairs one can be disconnected. I can then phone 'em up and ask them to remove one of the meters.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

So much for the Bosch Bosch GSB 18V-L1 It packed up and has hardly had any use at all. The torque and drill setting ring has locked up. The other ring that selects hammer action has as well. I suspect that's because the torque ring can't get to the drill setting any more.

I thought that buying Bosch from it's so called professional range would be ok.

John

–

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Other future model engineering topics for a model engineering website..

How to lay and fit a carpet,

and how to tile a bathroom.

Cheers,

Julian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 26/11/2016 22:54:58:

I thought that buying Bosch from it's so called professional range would be ok.

John

Only when used by a professional Have you got plaster dust or such like in the rings. B&Q keep advertising a De Walt at reduced cost but probably only has the low AAH batteries

Julian, that's why its in the tea room section and John is using metal framing for part of the job.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by JasonB on 22/11/2016 18:18:15:

TE board taped and filled with Easyfill, corner tape on the external corner.

With the metal strips in it ????

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by JasonB on 22/11/2016 17:01:48:

The corner tape is two strips of metal ( like pallet banding)bonded to a paper backing, you just fold it to form the corner and have a thin metal edge which won't get dented.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've looked at the corner tape Jason but wonder how you stuck it down. A review suggests pre folding it and sticking it over jointing compound and easing it into place with fingers. Then gentle use of a scraper warning that too much use will rip the paper. Then more jointing compound plus sanding being careful to avoid wearing through the paper.

The jointing compound could be easy fill. No mention of the type other than gyproc.

The usual corner bead section can be held in place with dry wall screws. I'm not convinced the that the tape offers that much of an advantage really other than being covered with paper which will take paint. The normal bead might not if exposed but does offer a firm straight edge to run a float against. The problem then is getting a smooth finish with the plaster. It can be done if the mix is correct but I've only managed it with the stuff that takes an hour or so to set. I removed a fireplace ones and that left an area that had to be completely replastered to about 1" deep. I did it in 2 layers and removed the lot twice before I managed a so so finish. I then needed to add a bit more to some of the edges and did get the mix right. For that sort of setting time it needs applying in more or less one go but will leave a finish that doesn't need sanding. If the float is run over it again it's hard to maintain the same contacts as the stuff is still soft.

Suppose the tape offers a firm edge too once stuck down so guess I will give it a go.

The only dust the drill has really seen is off bricks. What may have done it is selecting hammer when there was a torque set. I didn't use it like that but when I corrected that's when I noticed the problem. Rather than getting annoyed I should have thought more – I went to screwfix with just the drill. I should have took the lot and demanded a refund. Their records show I bought it 250 days ago so still under guarantee. As things stand it's off for repair and I had to buy another drill. As it turns out there is a design change. Separate settings for screws, drilling and hammer action. I'm going to register this one to extend the guarantee to 3 years. I suppose the other set with batteries etc hardly used will have to go on ebay when it comes back.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 27/11/2016 10:40:44

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've made my mind up. I'll use the tape but stick it on another way. I tried gluing some strips of timber to another piece yesterday due to a slight miss calculation. I used 3:1 water proof PVA. It has lots of grab and has firmly held it in place.

So light coat of circa 5:1 on the plasterboard edges to prevent another coat from drying too quickly. Then back to 3:1 to stick the tape on. Maybe a coat of 5:1 on the paper after that to firm it up if needed.

Then I'll try to blend it in hoping for no sanding at all.

Should work but the metal strip is pretty springy so will have to work that out as I go.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 27/11/2016 11:04:56

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by JasonB on 22/11/2016 17:01:48:

Get some corner tape which will save using bead and skimming. Ideally it should be used with TE board but works OK on SE or cut edges. Run a bit of Easyfill up the corner, press the tape on and then feather out the easyfill with a drywall knife or wide filling knife. The corner tape is two strips of metal ( like pallet banding)bonded to a paper backing, you just fold it to form the corner and have a thin metal edge which won't get dented.

Told you where how to stick it the other day as above.

With TE board the corner tape does not stand proud of the main board surface and with SE only about 0.5mm so in both cases easily feathered out with the jointing compound. If you use a skim angle bead then that stands about 3mm proud of the board surface – not a problem if skimming the whole board but does not work when just jointing.

Can't see sticking it with glue would work as you need to fill the slight step from metal to paper which is on the inside . Soon as you bend the tape into a 90deg shape it won't spring about or try to curl up

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by julian atkins on 27/11/2016 00:47:56:

Other future model engineering topics for a model engineering website..

How to lay and fit a carpet,

and how to tile a bathroom.

Cheers,

Julian

Haha and how to swing a handbag from an armchair. Perhaps you can help.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I wouldn't gain much using feather edge as the tape is going on the end of a wall. There would have to be 2 strips cut from a single board with a joint in the middle.

Just playing with a piece I can coin the paper flush with the front surface of the metal with a finger nail. So the idea might be on. However I just remembered a conversation with a decorator. He sometimes used a paint brush to touch plaster to allow him to get a light coat on easily and neatly. I might try that when it wont matter – while jointing to see if it works.

The fiddly bits of plaster board still aren't on. Drill broke during a large glue mix and it's dry wall screwed along one edge. The bits are prepared now and I have more confidence about doing it. I found a smooth 12in length of 6×2 handy to hammer come tap the stuff flat against a long level. They are fixed to taper the wall slightly so that they front of the unit can fit snugly against it. Plasterers seem to always leave the walls tapered the wrong way.

I now need to make space for a gas fitter to work. That is a bit of a nightmare and will probably take a good bit of the afternoon.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The fiddly bits are finally on. Bit of a problem with the last piece. The wall looked flat but had a lump. Should have checked with a straight edge first but fortunately I can get away with it and the bit that will show is fine. Only problem I have had sticking to an old wall. It's easy to miss remaining plaster and odd bits of mortar sticking out, Unlike the pro's going on video's I have watched since more or less finishing I have whacked it well home – following the builders advice, press it very firmly home. He's one if the good guys. I know from other work he did for us.

One video showed the end of the plaster board resting on the floor – that can be really bad news later. Plaster will wick up water like nobodies business especially plaster board.

Mixing the glue looks to be good practice for mixing plaster. Gauge the water needed then add the powder until the mix is correct. The lumps disappear pretty easily as the mix gets near the correct stiffness. It's easier that way as the water is the critical bit.

I need to do some plastering next. Thick stuff, just to fill the gaps to the main wall and a bit of blending. How that goes may well set what I do to finish it. My main problem last time was not waiting for it to go firmish before using a float and a little water. Very little. 2 coats are usually used too, It seems that helps get a decent finish as the last coat can be very thin and more or less just fills in marks – pass. Not tried it that way but might.

I may have a problem with the plaster board for the ceiling. Bought too soon and can't store it properly so it's warped a bit. If dry wall screws wont pull it flat I'll have to throw it away.

Next decision is the new wall.

Stick 2.7m x 1.2m feather edge to it, joint it and then use emulsion mist coating etc. The cost of the 2.7m lengths is disgusting compared with the 2.4's.

Use the small boards and joint it. That will probably need skimming however when they use these on ceilings they stagger the joints along the longest length. I could do that both ways on a wall. It's messy but easy to chamfer the edges of the boards so the jointing compound will be working on plaster not paper so if done neatly that to can be mist coated etc too. If in the future it doesn't work out it could still be jointed and skimmed. Given there would be plenty of adhesive behind it I can't see why there should be a problem anyway. The big plus is that the boards are much easier to handle.

On the ceiling I will definitely use 2.4×1.2m well jointed feather edge board plus stagger the long length joints.

John

–

 

Edited By Ajohnw on 29/11/2016 20:22:57

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

While nosing around I came across rockwall fibre paper and wondered if anyone had used it? Ideal for hiding plaster problems and can also be used directly on plasterboard or so the blurb says. The glue that needs to be used isn't cheap but this could be another option. Sort of super duty lining paper – that's all the paper on the boards is really so soaked in paint it might even be better.

I stood a length of corner tape in water for 15min. They use a soluble adhesive. Not dramatically so but it it was easy to peel of some of the paper at one end for short distance. As we will be using some wall paper I can't help wondering what would happen if we redecorated. Could cause all sorts of problems where as skimmed walls shouldn't be a problem.

One maybe mad idea on the tape in my case might be to fold it the other way and then blend in and use fibre paper on top. I'd definitely stick the tape down with PVA in that case.

I did a bit of plastering yesterday. More success than last time I tried but this is just filling in deep grooves. It had been PVA'd and allowed to dry first. I wondered about grab as when I tried it on a wall I had to wet the wall down. This time I mixed the plaster like very well whipped cream, the plaster is a lot stiffer of course but the stuff doesn't sag etc. No problem putting it on. Previously I would then spray a little water on and use a float on it. This stiff I think that would work out but didn't try as it's going to be covered anyway. After an hour I went back and sprayed a little water on it. It can still be worked with a reasonable amount of pressure and a nice rasping sound from the scraper in this case. It was a little like putty at this stage. Try to do that sooner and previously I found it just left trowel marks as the plaster was too soft.

I used gyproc one coat. They reckon 11mm deep max. The undercoat in small bags only went to 12. I've used it a bit deeper than that but as it's in a groove no problems. I'd say it could be used deeper on a wall too.

I'm now left with a tapering area that's about 5ft x 15". I'm going to have a go at ruling that off. If that works out well I might skim it myself or what ever.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The saga of the Bosch drills continues. So I could carry on I bought another. Cheapest so called pro model with a single 4ah battery. I've hardly ever managed to drive a dry wall screw in straight with it and couldn't figure out why. Then I noticed that the whole chuck could be rocked side to side. Not much but enough to be a problem. I just took it back for a refund.

The other one is back from repair. Outer shell of the chuck rocks but the business part is rock solid. What I didn't know when I took that in was that I could have taken the lot back for a refund as it's still under guarantee.

Out of interest they fitted a new gearbox. I'm going to take care not to select hammer while there is torque setting as that may have been the problem even though I didn't drill with it like that. The one I returned had 3 settings, screw, drill and hammer. Not 2, drill come torque and hammer.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 03/12/2016 17:31:14

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Very disappointed with the Wickes premixed plaster board jointing compound. It's not the same as the can I bought some years ago and can't be trowelled dead flat straight from the can. It's far too runny for that. Also greyish rather than white. I'll finish up having to sand it flat following 2 applications. It wouldn't be a problem if the wall was being skimmed.

Mentioned just in case some one is buying things to do the same sort of job. It easier to mix than the earlier stuff. Mixing is still needed because the materials settle out. The other stuff was very very stiff to stir.

I'll carry on with the part wall and very likely forget dotting the new wall and get a plaster in instead. Too much hassle and dust.

John

–

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Permit me a slight digression, John

My favourite pre-mix was PolyPlasta [Grey coloured, very lightweight, with an interesting 'organic solvent' aroma] … It seems to have disappeared from the market some years ago.

If it's still available: Someone please tell me where !!

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

This Wickes stuff seem to shrink but I'd expect it to crack as it's shrunk so much. I'd guess it's worked it's way into the plasterboard somehow. It dried to a lighter colour.

I had a slight hollow in one of the pieces of board near a joint and used it to fill in. Pretty shallow, mm or so. It's done a pretty good job of that and left an edge that is barely detectable. They mention it's use as a caulk before decorating. I'm not sure what they mean by that.

This and the earlier Wickes is pretty heavy. I don't know of a filler that can be sanded wet but some can be worked a bit with a damp sponge type approach.

Oh – the parts that have shrunk rather noticeably are V's as deep as the plaster board. Going on the hollow that was filled in it might be a lot better on feather edge joints,  I'll find out when I get to the ceiling.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 04/12/2016 23:11:42

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 04/12/2016 22:58:02:

that was filled in it might be a lot better on feather edge joints, I'll find out when I get to the ceiling.

John

It is designed for taper edge joints so it WILL be better. Onlt meant for a couple of mm per layer though the powdered stuff such as Easyfill which I suggested does not shrink like premixed and is easier to sand

Caulk = Painters Mate, use around any edge abutments as the board may move slightly against dis similar surfaces and the caulk is flexible.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

One thing it isn't to any noticeable degree is flexible Jason. I suspect they mean general filling, cracks etc

I don't think it's pure shrinkage either. Looks to me like the plasterboard has sucked some of it up. It's gone down way to much to just be shrinkage. It will be interesting to see what happens when it's topped up.

All this trouble to get a straight vertical wall for a tall cabinet. I have spent a lot of time running around though and sorting other stuff out. The tiled splash back may turn into cladding. Tongue and groove planks 2.7m long that can look just like tiles. Better is some ways in fact. One more thing to sort out. One supplier reckons it can be used near hobs. Another says no use the heat resistant type. The ordinary stuff is ok to 60C and our stove has a lift up glass top so may not matter anyway. My wife has seen a pattern she likes but going on the usual law it wont be available in a tiled pattern. More grief. I need to take her to have a look at it. I'm pretty sure I will be using it in the bathroom once this lot is finished.

One thing I meant to mention on dotting walls. It seems the top edge of the board must be sealed off to meet building regs. The idea is to stop fire spreading vertically. It can be done by running the adhesive all round the top edge. I wan't keen on that so stopped 2" short and filled in with plaster. A little gap is much harder to do. In my case it's above the false ceiling anyway but making a neat job of plastering a gap like that is pretty easy.

John

–

[Author]

Posts