First workshop

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Good progress!

If you are not familiar with lethe work, buy one or more books and read before launching into action. That way, you will be safer and have an idea of what you are doing.

PM me if you want a list of possibles

Certainly, you will find a set of Zeus Charts usedul. (Still using mine from 1958! )

Tubal Cain's "Model Engineer's Handbook" is another useful reference book to have to hand.

Then you can start becominbg used to operating a lathe.

FWIW, my advice is to start by making a few small tools. They will be useful for years to come, and if you make a mistake, it may still do the job, even nif it has a poorer finish that you would want But you will have learned from the experience. We all had to start somewhere.

Better to make a mistake on a bit of mild steel bar than an expensive casting!.

As you gain experience, you will find other things that you need; to cut or to measure. or hold!

Good Luck!

Howard

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Howard, yes my first projects are planned to be tools I will need. It will help me practice hitting dimensions accurately before working on anything with expensive or low tolerance parts. I have some drawings for a machinists hammer and a retractable scribe. Both of which will be invaluable I'm sure.

Theres a few books I'm looking at, although YouTube is also a good source of education to accompany the more in-depth reading. If all else fails my dad has an engineering background, machine tooling in his younger years but now aircraft engineering.

Hopefully taking my first chips tonight. I have to say on this progression from my simple drill and Dremel experience to machine tooling something that didn't occur to me in my research is just how intimidating it is to stand in front of a lathe spinning stock. Perhaps "scary" would be a strong word but I'm certainly extremely cautious.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 22/05/2023 11:31:10:

Certainly, you will find a set of Zeus Charts usedul. (Still using mine from 1958! )

Nowadays, as I can't find mine anyway, a cheap minimal spec laptop with solid state drive so it powers up quickly will provide the info, plus music, plus drawings, plus access to a very helpful forum.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Having had two workshops with concrete floors I would lay something down more foot friendly. Carpet and rubber mats were a nightmare to clean so I wouldn’t use those again. My current workshop has a wooden floor with a layer of plywood on top painted with floor paint. In your position I’d be tempted to do the same and put some plywood down.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Hey Matt, How is your workshop looking?

I finally got around to uploading pictures of my fit out…. (Except that while uploading, they've all been rotated 90 degrees)

You can see my workshop progress in this album

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Having grasped the proverbial nettle and cut some metal, you have gained a little confidence.

(We have all travelled that road. Once, we were all beginners )

The more that you do, the more confident and more able you will become. Yes, there will be mistakes along the way, but they expand our knowledge.

Forty years or so ago, when I got my first lathe, I never imagined that one day I would cut screw threads or cut gears.

Still trying, and failing, to be a precision engineer.

Keep at it!

Howard

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hi all,

Sorry I've not updated, life has been pretty busy (thesis writing and all). I had a slight issue with the drive pulley on my lathe, wasn't terribly impressed with the quality of the build but very impressed with warcos customer service so that's something I guess.

I've got a load more tools, my dad dropped off the rest of my grandads old gear and I've bought a few things of my own. I'm not exactly a "two steps ahead" thinker, so I keep getting to a stage where I need a tool but don't have it. Case in point, bought taps to tap a hole but failed to see I'd need a tap wrench! So progress on projects is slow.

As a mill is out of the question, there is simply no room, I'm considering investing in a bench drill. Not for milling purposes! I've read enough to know that's a bad idea but I feel ill occasionally need to drill so accurately holes that would be difficult on a lathe.

I'll upload a few more pics tomorrow, after I've had chance to tidy up a bit!

Matt

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

As promised an update on the workshop. The cabinets that were in there before are now back in. The big pine cabinet tucked under at the back is sadly of no use to my workshop but has the important job of storing duck food. The 2 grey cabinets had a bit of junk in that I've cleared out and is now full of my tools and other bits, there's a little extra room in there still. I'm yet to put cupboards under the bench but so far I've managed to find homes for everything, so I'll expand as I need to. My thoughts were that a bench drill might fit next to the tail stock, it could make for some workshop gymnastics to get the tail stock on and off but I think I could live with that in return for more precise holes than I can do with my hand drill and baby vice. The vice can swivel, which I thought was a handy feature in a tight space and so far it's served me well. I have the left over work top and I think with some jiggery pokery I could mount it on some collapsible legs and that would allow me an extra bit of pop up worktop in the garden on a nice day.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Posted by Matt T on 12/07/2023 23:57:05:

Hi all,

Sorry I've not updated, life has been pretty busy (thesis writing and all). I had a slight issue with the drive pulley on my lathe, wasn't terribly impressed with the quality of the build but very impressed with warcos customer service so that's something I guess.

I've got a load more tools, my dad dropped off the rest of my grandads old gear and I've bought a few things of my own. I'm not exactly a "two steps ahead" thinker, so I keep getting to a stage where I need a tool but don't have it. Case in point, bought taps to tap a hole but failed to see I'd need a tap wrench! So progress on projects is slow.

As a mill is out of the question, there is simply no room, I'm considering investing in a bench drill. Not for milling purposes! I've read enough to know that's a bad idea but I feel ill occasionally need to drill so accurately holes that would be difficult on a lathe.

I'll upload a few more pics tomorrow, after I've had chance to tidy up a bit!

Matt

I am glad you have had a good experience with Warco, I have had bad customer service from them myself.

As for milling…… looking at your latest image, I would say you have space on those cabinets by your window for a worktop milling machine…..

I found some dimensions of a generic milling machine… Overall dimensions of machine: 670 x 550 x860mm

The footprint of one of these machines is fairly comparable to that of a drill press.

I am most certainly not suggesting you buy this exact mill but it is the reference I have used for the dimensions above…. You should try and template the footprint out with some masking tape.

Amadeal Milling Machine

But you're making good progress and learning important lessons by the sounds of things.

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

You also have the option of three in one machines….

3 in 1 milling lathe

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hi Rooossone, I had a look at your workshop build and using a shipping container is an ingenious idea! Much cheaper than building something I assume and probably more secure. I see you've got lighting in, and I imagine leaving the doors open will provide some natural light although I've been very grateful to have the window right behind me. Having the natural light in helps it feel a little less confined.

The issue I see with a mill is table travel, I might be able to fit one in but I don't think I'd get much in the way of reach during milling operations. It might be okay, but I still need to have a think about it. In the meantime a bench drill is a much cheaper option and gives me a few extra operations. I've been looking at second hand ones on ebay and you can pick up some rather solid looking ones relatively cheaply (less than 100 quid).

The 3 in 1 machines were something I looked into when buying my lathe, I wouldn't say I regret not buying one but I do wish I'd considered this option a bit more. I think in the end it came down to a hobbymat vs warco decision based on popularity and availablity of parts. Although I could probably get parts for pretty much any lathe these two seemed like the most serviceable, and after losing out on old hobbymats (that may have had issues I wouldn't be well experienced to deal with) I went for the warco one. I have to say overall I'm quite impressed with it, apart from the drive pulley basically exploding it's been a solid piece of kit. Everything lined up so well out of the box I haven't had to shim any corners or anything like that. The tailstock lines up with the chuck centre dead on and I haven't got any measureable taper when I turn a long distance.

Making some more chips tonight, since I mentioned I was buying a lathe I've had requests from friends of mine. Tonight I'm turning some aluminium axles for an RC car that previously had plastic ones that snapped. A fairly simple project but all good experience. A shipment of mild steel has also arrived for my next project so I'm looking forward to having a go with that too!

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Hey Matt,

Yeah, the container is sweet I should have found a larger one to rent though. the site it's on is secure and cameras everywhere. I also have multiple chunky locks on the doors. I'd be impressed if anybody can get in there without being caught and the police turning up.

The landlords are great too. They're actually a lighting business so recently they've been able to hook me up with some LED strip lighting that I can control with my phone via bluetooth which is cool.

As for the daylight, its light enough in there I don't really notice, but with the doors open I get more than enough natural light and a pleasant breeze to boot! The insulation and paneling I have done should keep me in good stead for when it gets colder too.

I think the space you have, a window is pretty necessary as you say to remove that clostraphobic feeling.

As for travel…..

When I was looking into getting the Bridgeport, dimensions were obviously a very real concern of mine. Handily if you can get hold of the manual for the machine they will have drawings and tables documenting how much space is needed for travel, it's also a point to remember, depending on the kind of work you'll be doing, you rarely ever need the full travel of the x or y axis (y is less of an issue).

I would recommend acquiring (via download, or emailing the supplier) the manuals for a few milling machines and seeing what they document in terms of space needed and then pulling your tape measure out. I wouldn't just assume you don't have the space, you might be surprised!

Another idea you could look into is getting a Vertical milling slide attachment for your lathe's cross-slide. therefore turning your lathe into a kind of horizontal mill (using collets in the head of your lathe for mill bits and holding the work in the slide.). This would at least give you some functionality that wouldn't be available to you otherwise without taking up any of that valuable floor/worktop space.

Here is an example

And here is a video talking about them and showing them in use.

I briefly looked in to 3-in-1's myself. I came to the opinion that as I am not governed by space as much as you are I should get separate machines. Rigidity of those machines is a concern for me, but that would be overridden if I had the space constraints you do.

I think most import lathes these days have decent parts availability as they are just rebranded castings used by a lot of companies. Also, you are an engineer you could manufacture your way out of problems

Sounds like you are settling into your hobby nicely though! and already getting commissioned jobs!!!!

As for bench drills. I absolutely hate mine. It was under £100 and it's total crap. It doesn't make round holes (I shit you not). If you're going to buy one I recommend that you not buy cheaply.

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

A vertical milling slide is on my shopping list. I've got loads of milling cutters in my box of hand me downs so doing some basic milling on the lathe wouldn't break the bank. I think a 4 jaw chuck will come before that though, can't really dial stuff in on a 3 jaw with any degree of precision.

Thanks for your advice, I'll have a think and see what my budget allows. We were planning to move in 2 and a bit years to a larger place but given the climate we might be staying longer than expected! It's really impossible to predict at the moment.

Once we move I should have a full garage to myself, so I'm hesitant to spend lots of money on smaller machines if I can wait a little and buy bigger when I'm less constrained. I don't mind replacing my lathe as having it now allows me to get into my hobby more and learn some stuff. Hopefully I can find enough lathe only projects to keep me preoccupied lol

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Moving seems like a novel idea in this day and age. I will never own a house, I am stuck renting and have a pretty sweet deal where I am at now. The modern cost of living sucks.

Yeah you definitely should get a 4-jaw scroll chuck. pretty much a requirement!

There are definitely plenty of lathe centric projects out there you can do to keep you occupied until you get your mill situation sorted.

I was just having a look at the arc website and came across this…..SIEG SX2PG Mill

It looks ideal for the space you have……

It's details….

Table Longitudinal Travel

330mm

Width	515mm
Depth	560mm

So assuming the width does not take in to account the travel, you just add 330mm to the width, this is around 85cm (150mm of travel on each side) That is a very small footprint.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

All the ARC machines tell you overall space required to operate, look at the last image of 7

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Posted by JasonB on 13/07/2023 20:56:10:

All the ARC machines tell you overall space required to operate, look at the last image of 7

If that is the case then you only need just over half a meter squared!

[Anonymous]

Posted by Rooossone on 13/07/2023 18:55:54:

…you rarely ever need the full travel of the x or y axis…

I would disagree, I have run out of X, Y, and Z, on the Bridgeport; grooving plates that are over 6 feet long, in stages:

Drilling a large plate:

When looking at the space needed for a mill you need to account for being able to actually turn the hand wheel on the table.

Andrew

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

I see you neglected the initial part of that sentence "depending on the kind of work you'll be doing".

Milling 6ft lengths regularly seems pretty niche for a Model Engineering forum

 

Edited By Rooossone on 14/07/2023 10:19:47

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

I agree with Rooossone, I doubt I'll be milling 1ft lengths let alone 6ft. I wouldn't even get material that size inside my workshop!

I'll have another read around about hobby milling machines and measure up my space. I'll probably need to shuffle my tools around a bit too.

Also, what do you guys do with your swarf, so far all mine is alu, is it worth keeping different metals seperate? Or should I just bin it?

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Keep all the metals as separate as you can then you can take them to a scrapper when you have a load and get some £££ for it (not massive ammounts but better than just chucking it).

If you have mixed metals though you'll get next to nothing for it. I will have severral recycling totes for this purpose.

 

And you can call me Ross. I should probably change my handle.

Edited By Rooossone on 14/07/2023 11:43:34

[Anonymous]

Posted by Rooossone on 14/07/2023 10:17:06:

…seems pretty niche for a Model Engineering forum…

It's just as well I don't regard myself as a model engineer then. Although I am building two 4" scale traction engines:

The motion work and internals of the cylinder are largely to my own design, based on the full size engines:

Likewise the gears, regulator, simpling valve and water pump:

i have made almost everything on the engines, including most of the nuts, bolts and studs, and the chains and all gears, the main exceptions being the steel boilers and rubber tyres. The 6ft long parts were the rear wheel rims before rolling and welding.

As for scrap I used to keep metals seperate. The local council tip used to have a big skip for metal, plus smaller ones for aluminium and copper alloys, but no longer. Some years ago when i had a lot of swarf (70kg of cast iron and 5kg of copper alloy) i took it to a scrap yard. I got about £40 but when you consider it was a 60 mile round trip and took several hours it made no economic sense. Now that I am not machining for work (which was mostly aluminium) everything goes in one box and gets taken to the council tip two or three times a year. Apart from anything else the seperate boxes/bags took up a lot ot floor space.

Andrew

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I just wait for a scrap man to drive past in his van and give it and any scrap metal to him. Costs more in petrol and time to take it to a scrap merchant. Or if I have a skip on site I will put the sacks of it in that and let them sort it at the transfer station.

Yes 1m x 0.5mm would be about the minimum if you don't want to scrape you knuckles on whatever is either side. As Andrew says some additional working room either side should be allowed for and proportional to the size of work you do as it is a lot easier to have the room to start with than be faced with having to move machines about when you need to work on something larger. Like this little washer. Or when you have that 4" boiler of yours on the table to machine and drill the hornplate mounting stays

Many people will have a vice mid way on their table and maybe a rotary table or indexer at one end. I tend to have the 5C indexer to the right and as I buy most of my materials in 2f plus length often have material sticking out well beyond the end of the table. Power feed adds another 200mm to the left hand end.

Edited By JasonB on 14/07/2023 16:53:00

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hey Ross, I'll keep them separate for now. I'm quite lucky to live about 10 doors down from a scrap collector and about a mile from a scrap yard. I've been inspired by clickspring to have a go at castings some day, my dad used to work in a foundry casting ME parts so I want to draw on his expertise while I can. I figure the small amount I have can be pressed into pretty small containers.

Andrew they look great, I'd love to work on stuff that big but I think they have a larger footprint than my whole workshop! Part of the point of kitting out my shop was to move my work out of the lounge as it was starting to get messier (my better half was unimpressed to find me soldering on the dining room table)

Jason, that's a good point. I'll need footprint + working area. I caved in and against advice and better judgement I bought a cheap bench drill. I can't realistically afford a mill right now but I do need to make holes right now. I'm pretty sure I can move this one on when I upgrade and if I can't I won't too much sleep over it.

I think a portable bandsaw will be on my list too. I've just cut through some 55mm mild steel with a hacksaw and it wasn't much fun. I've got access to my brother's tools but he's a 2 hour round trip so I need to have a few jobs to make it worth going (outside of general visiting). Time to do some shim collecting for the rest of the evening (turning full beer cans into empty ones )

[Anonymous]

Posted by Matt T on 14/07/2023 20:18:30:

…Part of the point of kitting out my shop was to move my work out of the lounge as it was starting to get messier (my better half was unimpressed to find me soldering on the dining room table)

I decided what I wanted to build and then chose a lathe and vertical mill to suit. Ex-industrial machines, still in production, were choosen for two main reasons, apart from capacity. First, spares are available, albeit at a price. Second, there are useful accessories that simply don't exist for smaller machines. If I'd known how much other equipment I was going to acquire I would have laid the workshop out differently. Larger engines were an antidote to the day job (electronics engineer) where the components are now so small that I can't see them without a magnifier.

My dining room table has a number of marks where I have disassembled and cleaned items. But I have never soldered at the table. As a electronics guy i have a professional electronics workbench in the study. But, since I don't have a better half, I can do what I like in the house.

Andrew

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

In preparation for winter I spent the day insulating the roof in my workshop. A few inches left to go but I’ll do that tomorrow and clean up. Hopefully it will stay a little warmer in there now. I’ve got some foam interlocking tiles for the floor as I found my knees were sore after standing on concrete for hours!

[Author]

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