First workshop

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

I hope you keep us all posted in this thread with updates as you go.

I have a Bridgeport being delivered to my workshop next week. Exciting times!!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Sturdy metal mesh across the window is a good sceurity measure.

But do allow dor ventilation.

Temperature changes will produce condensation, nand while you are in there, you will be exhalimg water vapour.

Ideally you need a small low level vent to let out bthe water vapour, with a high level vent to allow dier air to replace it. In this way, you will reduce the risk of rusting.

In frosty conditions, in a workshop 3 metres by 2 ,mentres, a 60 or 80 watt tubular heater keeps things above the dewpoint.

Both vents should be weather ans insect proof. (My upper vent has an external hood to exclude the rain )

HTH

Howard

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

For the pinnacle of space utilization you should check out the famous Studley tool cabinet… (there are many re-implementations of this online too)

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Bazyle, cracking shout, there's a small carpet shop at the top of my road. I'll call in there and see what they can offer

Dalboy, thanks, I'm sure they would be ideal for storing the taps/dies/drills and reamers I'm sure to collect!

Howard, moisture is still a major concern for me, if I had enough space I would have batton and insulated it but I'd lose too much width. There are 2 vent bricks on the back wall, one high and one low. Would these be sufficient? I can add a hood to the outside. What's the best way to insect proof? I could pin some narrow mesh over them? I'm thinking screen door style.

Hoping to get a coat of floor paint on later, all depends if I can sneak out of work early enough before and fit it in before a dreaded first aid course tonight

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Matt,

Hi Matt,

The two airbicks are well placed to provide ventilation.

Yes a hood over the outside should stop rain blowing in. Mine is sheet metal, sloping to help water run off.

A fine mesh should exclude insects. Repurpose some of SWMBO's tights? Air can pass but not the creepy crawlies.

If the walls are single brick, it might be worth loning them with p[olystyrene tiles, to minimise the risk of condemsation, without losing much space..

In low ambient temperatures, a small space, a 60 or 80 watt tubular heater will make its presence felt within 24 hours. You just need to keep the btemperature above the dew point.

Howard

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Thanks Howard,

Ill talk to my dad when he arrives on Saturday and see about moisture. I think a space heater of sorts could be work around (albeit costly with the energy prices these days!)

Managed to get some floor paint down. I had planned on touching it up on Sunday after we repoint some of the brick work but I used the whole tin it'll mostly be hidden anyway so I don't think anyone will notice.

Excited to get my worktops fitted Saturday hopefully. They're arriving tomorrow with a load of timber and I can't see the better half letting me keep them in the hallway for a week

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Matt T on 18/05/2023 18:12:29:

Thanks Howard,

Ill talk to my dad when he arrives on Saturday and see about moisture. I think a space heater of sorts could be work around (albeit costly with the energy prices these days!)

Have a look at electric greenhouse tube heaters. I have two in my workshop and they are thermostatically controlled. Cheap to run and left on 24/7.

Tube Heater HERE they do a larger one as well. they just help keep the temperature about freezing point and help prevent rusting.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Matt T on 18/05/2023 18:12:29:

Thanks Howard,

Ill talk to my dad when he arrives on Saturday and see about moisture. I think a space heater of sorts could be work around (albeit costly with the energy prices these days!)

…

Not keen on heat as an answer to damp problems, especially if it's an On/Off type. A tube heater that keeps the metalwork above the dew point is OK, but expensive to run.

Condensation is the enemy. I suggest:

• doing everything possible to stop water getting into the room
• ventilating to get damp air out (that air-brick should be sufficient)
• drying the air with a dehumidifier. Unlike a heater, which promotes condensation by moving moist air over cold metal, a dehumidifer collects the water so it can be thrown away. Dry air can't cause condensation. The electric bill should be smaller too!
• insulate the building, keep the machine oily, cover then with a blanket, and keep hand tools boxed, ideally with some vapour paper.

May not be too bad – cool sheltered workshops are less trouble than those that get hot and cold due to weather. Sheds are generally worse than outhouses, but much depends on position and insulation.

Dave

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

Hi Matt,

Basically this space is too small, so we are talking some serious compromises. My workshop is the same width as yours but much longer and it chocked up straight away, not helped by my inheriting a tonne of junk I should skip. Still working on that. There are a good few pictures in my album from when I started moving in. They don't show the folding machine acquired last year, my mountain bike and the other clutter.

The layout-on-paper idea is excellent, just make sure you identify full travel of the mill bed and service areas around fixed equipment. They will grow enormously when you do that. My milling machine takes up about 5 feet of bench.

The principle problem is fitting two machine tools at bench height, plus a work area, probably with a vice, which needs elbow room and possibly an erection area, where you assemble your pride and joy. Looking at your floor area I think some things are going to have to be on top of each other, you might even want to use a combined machine or go old school and do everything on a lathe.

The forum mantra is decide what you want to make and kit for that. I am going to say decide what you can fit and decide if that's good enough. Small engines (which I love) only need small equipment. 5" needs a huge amount of space just to park the damn thing, I can barely get around it! Massive compromise is needed. Maybe you just make small parts at home, does that mean you need more storage/assembly space, so less space for tools?

Where's that Proxxon catalogue?

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Dalboy, i had a look at those heaters. A 40w heater left on 24/7 even at today's electric prices was working out at about 2.50 a week, which is quite affordable and a good investment to keep the tools safe. That's said I do subscribe to Dave's thinking that removing moisture may be a better option than simply trying to keep it suspended in the air. I may end up with a bit of both, I feel like having a heater in there wouldn't hurt, especially on cooler mornings/days just for comfort. A small space like that should heat up quick with a body in it.

Hi Roger, thanks for the advice. To be honest I'm in no rush to buy a mill so when I come around to it I'll probably already have no space left. One thing I was woefully unprepared for was that buying a lathe would be the cheap part of this project! While the single most expensive item, all the other costs are beginning to add up.

I think I've got everything I need to start making chips by Monday, including metal and plans for a machinists hammer. I bought a set of preground HSS tools for now. My dad has a contact for machinist tooling from earlier in his long engineering career so he's going to help put me in contact with him soon.

I'm also on the lookout for a group to join or a local friend! So if anyone has any recommendations in the notts/derby area I'm all ears

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

With regard to the floor I would recommend laminate over thick insulation if heavy machines don't have to stand on it. The laminate is easy to keep swept and tolerant of fluid spills other than water and keeps ones feet warm.

I use Freecycle to source all sorts of items including materials such as used and new laminate for my workshop floor, old kitchen cabinets, work surface etc which often come up as houses get refurbished. Someone was offering a Granite work surface which I thought would make a fabulous bench top and surface plate to boot.

I recently got a 10 draw Bisley unit and a working Dyson vacuum that is ideal for the workshop to replace the one I got out of a skip 20 years ago.

All items are offered free and you can do your bit to save the planet.

CS

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

And if you're (correct spulling) going to use re-cycled tubular light fittings for LED tubes, read posting regarding these.

Regards Ian.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Matt

By all means use a dry heater. Anything that burns a fuel, (gas, kerosene, wood etc) will produce water vapour, which you do not want.

So electric heating is the way to go.

There will be water vaour in the air, if only from your breatrh, but the essential is to keep the air temperature above the dew point.

In a former (even smaller) workshop, returning to nthe unheated shop would show the Myford coated in grey emulsified oil. The present shop (6'(2 x 10'9" external ) has 50 mm of glassfibre insulation in walls and roof and sits on 8 x 2 bearers. When ambient temperatures are low, the 60 watt tubular heater is switched on, and the following day, the steel bench no longer feels cold.

Howard

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

The frame is in. We've hung it back 50mm from the front edge of the worktop to allow for clamps etc

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

We're in! Bit of tidying up to do but the lathe is bolted down

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Well done Matt. You can soon start making swarf.

Thor

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Looking good Matt!

Jim

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

You have made some lovely progress so far Matt!!!

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

Good solid bench there, and first machine in pride of place.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Looking good, the only question is "what is the box at the end of the bench will it ever need to be accessed if so what allowance have you made if it does need it"

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Thanks all! I'm really happy so far

Dalboy, it's my grandads old toolbox. Filled with lots of old bits, all imperial (where applicable) which will be helpful for me. He's had it since he passed about 20 years ago and has been looking for a new home for it. Everything (other than the lathe) is in a temporary spot for now. I want to start doing some work then plan my layout so the tools I need are where I expect them to be (if that makes sense)

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Matt T on 21/05/2023 19:09:24:

Thanks all! I'm really happy so far

Dalboy, it's my grandads old toolbox. Filled with lots of old bits, all imperial (where applicable) which will be helpful for me. He's had it since he passed about 20 years ago and has been looking for a new home for it. Everything (other than the lathe) is in a temporary spot for now. I want to start doing some work then plan my layout so the tools I need are where I expect them to be (if that makes sense)

Not the toolbox but the grey box attached to the wall with wires coming from it

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

That's the rear side of the electric meter box. Opened from the outside so no problem there. I'm planning on boxing it off properly with some MDF just the be doubly sure that it's not damaged by flying and spinning things. The main gas pipe to the house also inconveniently runs up the wall of my workshop so that too will get boxed off and all hot work (brazing, silver soldering, tempering etc) will probably get done in the garden.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Matt T on 22/05/2023 09:33:58:

That's the rear side of the electric meter box. Opened from the outside so no problem there. I'm planning on boxing it off properly with some MDF just the be doubly sure that it's not damaged by flying and spinning things. The main gas pipe to the house also inconveniently runs up the wall of my workshop so that too will get boxed off and all hot work (brazing, silver soldering, tempering etc) will probably get done in the garden.

No problem it was just a thought as things can easily be overlooked. Yes boxing it in is a good idea

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Matt T on 22/05/2023 09:33:58:

…

The main gas pipe to the house also inconveniently runs up the wall of my workshop so that too will get boxed off and all hot work (brazing, silver soldering, tempering etc) will probably get done in the garden.

Keeping different types of work separate is always a good idea if you can. Woodwork and metalwork don't mix because sawdust soaks up oil and makes an abrasive mix with swarf on machine tools. And metalwork generates oily black mess that spoils clean woodwork. Painting demands cleanliness, and so does electronics. Apart from fumes, and corrosive flux fumes, flames in the workshop produce a lot of water – the condensation caused by hot work is nastier than ordinary wet.

My ideal workshop would about 10×10 metres and air-conditioned. No chance, I have to make the best of what I've got…

Dave

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