First workshop

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hi all, after many months of discussing at the other half she has agreed to me converting our brick storage room into my first little workshop (emphasis on little). Honestly I think she'll just be happy to have the dining table back .

Previously I've only worked on steam toys, but i recently realised the dream of owning my first lathe, so I'm very excited to start on my first "proper" steam engines.

It measures 1930mm x 1250mm so it really is small, I plan to have an L shaped worktop up the right hand wall and across the back and from my sketchy plans I think I'll have enough room for my lathe and in future a mill and small bench grinder.

Ive cleaned and sealed up the floor with concrete sealer. Surprisingly it stays very dry in there, I've had my other tools out there a few years and they've been fine. Regardless I still plan to paint the exterior brickwork with some water repellent (but vapour permiable) paint to make sure things stay dry. Im painting the inside with some brick paint and floor with floor paint to brighten it up a bit before my dad comes to help me fit the worktop at the weekend.

If anyone has any advice for working in such a small space and how to make the most of it I'm all ears!

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Since your workshop has a small footprint my advice would be to use your vertical space well. Don't be tempted to make a shadow board for example, that meter of space will only hold the contents of a small tool box which is wasteful. In the same space you could have 3-4 bisley style cabinets with several layers of draws which will hold hundreds of items. Think of your space as a kitchen, work surfaces, draws and cupboards. 🙂

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations with your first workshop. Your workshop may be small, mine is a bit larger, but with a small lathe and milling machine you should be able to make your engines. Using the vertical space is good advice. I have small drawers underneath my bench. Journeymans workshop might give you some ideas although his workshop is larger than yours. It has also been discussed on this forum.

Thor

 

Edited By Thor 🇳🇴 on 17/05/2023 09:30:01

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

My workshop is in an internal garage that is shared with camping equipment, freezer, washer and dryer so I had similar space issues.

My Sieg SC3 lathe purchased from Arc Euro a few years ago has been ideal for the smaller space I have at my disposal and has always sat happily on a drawer cabinet so I have storage space underneath it and unlike more traditional lathes has not demanded a matched stand to maintain alignment which would probably be less space efficient.

Regarding your comment about a milling machine I have a Seig SX1L from the same sellers and while it is adequate within its capacity, said capacity is not that great – but it is the largest machine I have space for. I am fortunate in that I have access to larger milling machine through my club and on reflection not buying the SX1L would have given me more bench space that is now at a premium. It is convenient to have your own equipment though!

I think I should heartily recommend from direct personal experience the Seig Lathe as a starting place and see if a vertical slide will do any milling you require – and joining a club with a workshop with larger tooling available is never a bad idea.

Nick

PS I have just remembered that the local Man's Space here in Birmingham has a larger mill and lathe which could be an option but in the end I decided not to join – the model engineering club has a track (my main interest is locos) and also is considerably cheaper.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Most workshops are an evolution of needs over the years so don't put up anything too difficult to remove

Hollowpoint gives good advice, don't think vertical think horizontal, if you have a high space overhead put up support rafters for overhead storage

Enjoy your journey, it's part of the fun

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Be aware that although it seems dry when you are in there breathing more often for longer periods damp will condense in the darker corners.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

One of my old magazines has a photo of a Myford built into a home-made cabinet like a writing desk, where the top and front panel hinge open to reveal the lathe and form a small bench. Drawers underneath, I think Hollowpoint's Bisleys would be better. Unlike a real writing desk, the frame was heavy timber, probably 2×4, to keep it rigid, and it may have been bolted to the wall.

If you can, store materials and infrequently used tool somewhere else! Oily metal under the marital bed is rarely acceptable, but maybe one of those Garden Storage box thing outside.

Like Nick, my workshop shares space with ladders and other DIY necessities. Fitting it all in was going to be a challenge. So I sat down with a sheet of squared paper scaled to map the available space, marked up it up with avoid areas like windows, doorways and light fittings, and then cut out scale rectangles representing the bench, lathe, mill, self and power saw (the last is important: hand-sawing can ruin the hobby because it's tedious and exhausting. Ask about saws in another question – there are options!)

Then I moved the bits of paper about, looking for fits. Having found a candidate layout, check it for gotchas. For example, mounting a lathe with its headstock tight into a corner means you can't put long stock through the spindle, have blocked access to the gear-change banjo needed for threading, and can't fit a hand-crank (useful for threading on a small lathe.) Tailstock end in a corner is mostly safe! Milling machines need more space than is obvious. because their tables move a fair distance sideways.

Another thing to watch is the space needed to install machines in the first place. A flat run through a big garage door makes it easy to move heavy equipment with an engine crane, but once inside the engine crane needs space to turn. I hot it wrong by forgetting a load of junk was stacked against the wall, so the crane couldn't complete a 90° turn. Luckily I had a Plan B!

Check out weights and sizes, for example the short bed SC3 is 40kg and the long bed model 50kg, both top-heavy. Next size up, an SC4, is 95kg, or a WM250 at 125kg. Smaller lathes and mills can be lifted by a single fit individual, but beware – machine tools are awkward, unbalanced and top-heavy. More difficult than lifting the same weight in a gym. On the other hand, an SC3-sized mini-lathe is an easy two man lift, even if both are weeds, but only if they have room to manoeuvrer. Usually best to install the most awkward items first because every addition reduces manoeuvring space.

All do-able, because heavy weights can be managed with rollers and other tricks of the trade, but trickier to do in a tight space than an empty warehouse. Especially if moving the machine from front-door into the cubby-hole scuffed SWMBO's new carpet, or squashed her cat, or otherwise enraged the boss. The execution may need some thought – as they teach in the Army, "Prior Planning Prevents Piss-poor Performance".

Have you thought of writing it up as a magazine article? How people manage in a small space is always interesting.

Dave

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

The smaller the shop, the less versatile it is likely to be. Focus your hobby. Ideally define the range of stuff you want it to do well, then be ruthless about equipping it for that and ban equipment that isn't needed for that objective.

Getting rid of stuff is difficult – better not to get lumbered with it in the first place.

I threw stuff out of my workshop – radial arm saw, bobbin sander, extra benches… and it is much better for it.

Try and avoid creating nasty dust – do all sanding and grinding somewhere else (even a small bench grinder can make nasty dust if you use it often).- Avoiding dusty operations is much easier to do than implementing good dust extraction. But… make it easy to dust/vacuum – put things away in cupboards or boxes.

Concentrate on it being a nice place to 'be'. Somewhere you can just go with a cup of tea to sit down for a while. Make it warm. Fresh air. Good light. Nice surroundings.

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 17/05/2023 11:13:08

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

Hey, I am building out my workshop too! best of luck to you.#

Something that is causing me sleepless nights are my storage and racking options…

In my dads old workshop he had what I would describe as layered sliding shelves (think sliding French patio doors but shelving.racking for tools and stuff).

I massivley agree with Bisley cabinets and drawers they are solid and there are plenty on ebay that are cost effective.

A custom option that I am looking at is these style trays….

**LINK**

They are available in A4 A3 both deep and shallow. My plan is to make a custom shelving system under my workbench that I can slide these in and out of (I realise they are plastic so I am using shelves rather than rails to slide on, preventing sagging and collapsing).

For your power tools like grinder and or chop saw, you could make a flip top tool cart that you could move around…

something like this

Of the shelf (pardon the pun) stuff is great and all but nothing will utilize the space you have, more than custom solutions. it all comes down to budget, preference and creativity.

The other thing You and I need to consider is power, how and where do we install power sockets etc. personally i am planning to have mine high up so I can keep cabling tidy and mostly hidden in conduit. I can then fix any extensions to the wall lower down if needed.

As for lighting, I will be running as much LED strip lighting as I can possibly fit into the workspace

I will also be getting a de-humidifier for the workshop as breathing is wet business and I don't like rust.

Another point that might be moot for you is somewhere to hand the plans of the things I am making so I can easily reference, a Whiteboard may also be useful for notes and reminders.

 

Edits: Spelling and final points

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 12:33:00

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 12:34:21

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 12:36:51

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

If you're ever worried about workshop space, watch this video from Clickspring….

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

I just noticed the floor, I recommend making it something pleasant to spend hours at a time on.

I use these double layered (probably excessive but it's cushy!)

Halford floor mats

 

these will also provide some level of protection to things when you inevitably drop them!

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 12:41:27

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/05/2023 10:33:43:

One of my old magazines has a photo of a Myford built into a home-made cabinet like a writing desk, where the top and front panel hinge open to reveal the lathe and form a small bench. Drawers underneath, I think Hollowpoint's Bisleys would be better. Unlike a real writing desk, the frame was heavy timber, probably 2×4, to keep it rigid, and it may have been bolted to the wall.

Probably an image of Herbert Austins workshop in his bedroom at Lickey Grange.

Robert Butler

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hi all,

Thank you for so many replies and so much helpful advice. It's definitely given me plenty of food for thought. I settled on the Warco Super Mini Lathe as I felt it was the only size that could comfortably fit in my space. I'm aware that I will outgrow such a small lathe in time but hopefully we will have moved by that time and I'll have a little more space!

I planned the worktops around a kitchen as I heard there was some success in using these kinds of lathes on kitchen worktops as and when needed. Pretty sure I'd be sleeping on the sofa if I dared try that! I opted not to install kitchen cupboards under my worktop as I wanted to build a solid frame for the worktop to sit on, I've bought plenty of 3×2 to build it on, might double up on the legs, but I do plan on putting drawer units of some kind underneath the bench. It's quite a short room so hanging anything off the ceiling is pretty much out of the question.

Jack and others mention ventilation, this is a concern for me. There is a window in the room but it doesn't open. I could look at changing this as otherwise there is only a few airbricks to bring fresh air in. The door is very close to the back door that I plan to leave open while I work in there but it's unlikely to create a draft significant enough to clear dust so I'll definitely have more of a think about that. I do own a small portable dehumidifier that we ended up with after a pipe burst at 3am, so I could run that if I get concerned about moisture.

Rooossone those mats look like an excellent idea! Previously I had put carpet tiles down in there, I removed them because they weren't really my style, pretty sure my primary school classroom had the same ones. I'd neglected to think about the floor underfoot aside from painting it but standing there for a long time could be uncomfortable. One or more of these could really help so I'll definitely look into that!

Thanks again all!

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I really like my current storage solution G-rack metal racking with extra shelving on machine mart mobile bases with lots of Gratnells Plastic Shallow Tray, 75h x 312w x 427d mm, which I use like draws both on rack and elsewhere (under workbench etc). I can move everything around to optimise layout. Really handy to be able to putl out a whole tray onto the workbench with content that is relevant to the job at hand. You can get lids for the trays (easy to dust). Most things go on a try rathe than direct on shelf.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

As suggested use the walls for storage, and if you can make them with draws to suit your needs. Better to have enclosed units as it is surprising where the swarf gets. Yes I know as I have some shelves which I need to clear off the tools to clean it off.

I like the bisley draw units especially the shallow ones for the smaller stuff as having to dig into deep draws to find something is a pain

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

My dad actually still has a slimmed down version of his layered sliding shelves…. its only three layers now instead of five and only has two sliding panels instead of a million…….

EVERYBODY: Please excuse the fact he is a woodturner and just imagine that they are proper machinist tools 

 

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 15:15:36

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 15:17:34

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A small workshop has to be kept tidy.

Waste no space! Clean and put back everythinbg, in the right place, after use.

Use cabinets to store the various types and sizes of hardware, toolbits, toolholders etc.

Mine is a mechanised version of Rubik's Cube. The sturdy shelves carry a lot of weight (A pile of 6 boxes of Taps and Dies, of the various types . Further along sit boxes of drills, Various metric, number and letter. Imperial live in a drawer under the Milling machine bench.

If there is a clear horizontal are, It is unlikely to remain clear and uncluttered for long!

HTH

Howard

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Well it won't win any beauty contests but it's certainly a bit lighter in there now. I expect most of the walls will end up covered with something anyway.

The window has frosted glass but I'm tempted to drop some cloth over it that I can roll/pin up while I'm in. I'm not sure if that will deter thieves or encourage them? I've already had the cat converter nicked from my car so I'm acutely aware that people will take things that are bolted down….

Dalboy, i was considering those kinds of drawers, I just wasn't sure if they would be substantial enough when loaded up with tools. Are they sturdy enough?

Rooossone your dad's tools look great! I'm a bit of a fan of the feel of wooden handles so I was thinking of putting wooden handles on my files, as I've had it drilled into me that handles on files is non negotiable with a lathe.

Floor painting Friday, I've left the bottom two rows of bricks to paint with the floor paint, no particular reason (other than this is where I also put concrete sealer up to) I just like the aesthetic of floors that lap up the walls.

I will have to dodge the enormous armoured cable snaking around the wall, a consequence of having our consumer unit moved into a more convenient location.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Matt,

Looking forward to seeing progress on your workshop.

One of my old workshops was a bit smaller than yours, Bisley drawer units are a great way of storing a lot of tools in a small place.

Best of luck!

Jim

[RooossoneParticipant @rooossone]

For security, and protecting off the glass from flying metal, I would look at bolting a cage to the inside of the window. you could even use that to hang things off of.

 

Someth9ing along the lines of this

some form of metal mesh anyways, it will still let the light in and breeze if the window opens outwards.

I am sure you do not want to upset your wife with the noise of smashing glass!

Edited By Rooossone on 17/05/2023 18:04:48

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Check your town for a flooring/carpet company. I have a local one that is continually filling a skip with offcuts of new carpet and wood flooring. With such a small space I could easily just change the carpet every week instead of sweeping.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Bazyle on 17/05/2023 18:20:14:

Check your town for a flooring/carpet company. I have a local one that is continually filling a skip with offcuts of new carpet and wood flooring. With such a small space I could easily just change the carpet every week instead of sweeping.

Just what I do with the carpet in front of lathe and drill

H

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Posted by Matt T on 17/05/2023 17:21:42:

Dalboy, i was considering those kinds of drawers, I just wasn't sure if they would be substantial enough when loaded up with tools. Are they sturdy enough?

The Bisley draws will be used under the lathe on the floor and the custom made draw unit on the wall with the correct fixing to the wall it should be strong enough. Heavy tools and fitting being stored in a cupboard which will fit under the bench

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

A mate used to have a drop-down flap hinged to the back of the door, behind which was a side-hinged triangular brace much like some drop-leaf tables have – when he needed to get the grinder /welder, etc out, he could hook the door back, put up this little 'table' and do 'dirty' work outside the workshop.

When he'd finished it dropped back flat against the door.

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