First Lathe – Colchester Triumph (1960s roundhead) vs Warco WM250v

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I think it is very unlikely you could ensure a high chance of detecting a knackered old lathe without personal practical experience of turning and/or tinkering on a lathe.

If you lack experience then you might not even know if the poor results you get from your lathe are due to lack of knowledge or a fault with the lathe.

Either buy new, or buy according to the direction of someone you trust and who has something to lose (if only your respect) if they give bad advice.

Big lathes are a bother to install.. but equally a bother to get rid of. If you want a big old bargain, get something smaller and cheaper to learn on.

This is stuff I have concluded after buying a few old lathes with little personal experience. I am an expert in making bad decisions; I should not be trusted to make good ones.

Machine shops will chuck big old knackered lathes in the skip just for the scrap value. 

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 13/03/2022 09:06:18

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Just spoke to the current owner of the Myford and I'm off to see it tomorrow evening – he purchased it 6 years ago from an old engineer who'd passed away – it was apparently pretty greasy/dirty so it has been stripped, cleaned and repainted.

The old motor gave out last year and the new one was wired in. He's let me know that he didn't rewire in the reverse on the motor so I'd need to do that myself. He used it to build a steam engine and completed the project last year – hasn't used it much since hence the sale as he's looking to downsize.

I'm not massively familiar with Myford – is £850 reasonable if its in decent shape given current prices?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

That Myford ML7 would seem to be a very good starter lathe, and you would have more funds to buy extra tooling and material to turn. Another factor is that if you eventually wanted to get something bigger, the Myford would be easy to sell. Two people could get the Myford into the back of an estate car, the Colchester weighs 3/4 of a ton. There is a wealth of information on Myfords and spares are easy to get and relatively cheap. Any problems with a Myford and you would get lots of advice on this forum from experts who know everything there is to know about them.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Best of luck with the Myford, hope it's a good 'un.

I wouldn't be too concerned about reverse drive. With the screw-on chuck arrangement of the Myford, it's a good way of accidentally allowing the chuck to detach from the spindle.

In 40+ years of Boxford ownership I've never found reverse really necessary. A good mandrel handle is all that's needed.

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

I have been bidding on EBay for a Unimat 3 with loads of equipment. I stopped bidding at £853. It went for £1100.

So, I decided to buy a “new” lathe on EBay.

I found a brand new Myford ML10 that had been stored at an electric wholesalers for a long while.

It looks brand new with 3 jaw grip true, 4 jaw independent, change wheels and tools etc. The chucks have never been fitted to their backplates and are still boxed.

A bit more than I wanted to pay for a lathe but to good a bargain to miss.

So I put a bid on it, not expecting to win but I did.

I won it for a £1,000, no other bidders. I expect people saw the £1,000 price tag and moved on not realizing the condition.

it is an early model, it has a hardened steel spindle running in a cast iron headstock but it should see me out.

I am tempted to sell the Grip True chuck as it may sell for £250 on EBay and replace it with a cheaper chuck. Not sure about that. I also have a new 4 inch 4 jaw chuck in the shed but it depends if the rust worm has been at it.

All in all, a good day. Now to figure out what sort of lathe stand I can get my wheel chair under or can I get stronger and use a stool. Either way, I see some articles coming up for Model Engineer an Workshop.

[HuubParticipant @huub]

Posted by David-Clark 1 on 13/03/2022 21:28:32:

I am tempted to sell the Grip True chuck as it may sell for £250 on EBay and replace it with a cheaper chuck. Not sure about that. I also have a new 4 inch 4 jaw chuck in the shed but it depends if the rust worm has been at it.

If it is a good quality chuck, keep it. It is one of the most important parts of the lathe. Replacing a chuck can be quit expensive.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 13/03/2022 17:39:17:

Just spoke to the current owner of the Myford and I'm off to see it tomorrow evening – he purchased it 6 years ago from an old engineer who'd passed away – it was apparently pretty greasy/dirty so it has been stripped, cleaned and repainted.

The old motor gave out last year and the new one was wired in. He's let me know that he didn't rewire in the reverse on the motor so I'd need to do that myself. He used it to build a steam engine and completed the project last year – hasn't used it much since hence the sale as he's looking to downsize.

I'm not massively familiar with Myford – is £850 reasonable if its in decent shape given current prices?

I'm not sure about current UK prices as I am not in the UK. But it seems about ballpark. Prices have been rising the past few years. You can do an eBay completed sales check to see what others have sold for. Not sure how though.

I had another look at that pile of accessories with it and they are good. The vertical slide and Keats angle plate are both very handy. And it looks like the change gear pile includes maybe the 127 tooth metric conversion gear and the 12 tooth fine feed gear. Both well worth having. It looks like the lathe has been model-engineer owned rather than flogged to death in a commercial workshop or abused by some numpty with no clue. The only other accessory that would be nice is a fixed steady for larger diameter jobs that dont fit inside the headstock spindle but they come up on ebay all the time and can be had reasonably cheap if you bide your time.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Michael you'd be better off buying Robin's lathe:

**LINK**

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Posted by Huub on 13/03/2022 22:44:40:

Posted by David-Clark 1 on 13/03/2022 21:28:32:

I am tempted to sell the Grip True chuck as it may sell for £250 on EBay and replace it with a cheaper chuck. Not sure about that. I also have a new 4 inch 4 jaw chuck in the shed but it depends if the rust worm has been at it.

If it is a good quality chuck, keep it. It is one of the most important parts of the lathe. Replacing a chuck can be quit expensive.

Yes it is a good quality chuck, a Prott Burnerd 3 inch grip true. Not sure I need the grip true. I normally use slightly larger material and turn all diameter so at the one time, turn it around and finish in a collet or 4 jaw chuck.

The 4 jaw is 5 inch diameter which might be a bit big for a lathe with a 3.25 inch centre height, which I believe the ML10 has, when I have a spare 4 inch one in stock.

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Hi Pete,

I'm afraid that link isn't working – any chance you could pop it in the thread again?

Cheers,

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 14/03/2022 13:09:50:

Hi Pete,

I'm afraid that link isn't working – any chance you could pop it in the thread again?

…

Looks like the title and URL are the wrong way round in Pete's post.

Try this link

(https://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&view=show_ad&adid=41388&catid=2)

Dave

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Hey all,

Just a quick update to say I ended up purchasing the Myford ML7. I saw it this evening and the bed, gears and ways were pretty much pristine. The cross feed dial did have some backlash – falling back exactly 10 thousands of an inch which isn’t ideal but I can compensate for that.

The owner let me have a good 20 minute play turning down some brass rod and I think I’m hooked. First time getting to use a lathe myself.

Unfortunately it didn’t have the 127 tooth metric gear (largest was 97) but for the moment I’ve got something, I can learn on it and hopefully it’ll be relatively easy to sell when I’m looking to upgrade.

Had a great chat with Malcolm from Pennyfarthing too – he is a very interesting (in a good way) guy. Going to drop him an email as he said he can put a few feelers out for me so may decide to upgrade fairly quickly – looking forward to getting this home and bolted to the bench. Think I’ll try a few bearings then maybe a spinning top as my first projects then I might try fitting a cheap DRO from one of the Chinese drop shippers to make working in metric easier.

Thanks for all the advice and I’m sure I’ll be back asking more questions.

Cheers,

Mike

Edited By Michael Smith 26 on 14/03/2022 21:45:30

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 14/03/2022 21:34:30:

…

Unfortunately it didn’t have the 127 tooth metric gear…

Congratulations! Does perchance it have a 63 tooth gear? If so nearly as good as a 127.

Dave

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Thanks! Afraid not on the gearing – 60 and 65 but no 63.

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Michael, good luck with the Myford. A good turner can get good results from a worn lathe although it does not sound like you need it. Lathes are few and far between on EBay but I found a brand new Ml10 and won it for £1,000 and £100 for delivery.

Bargains are out there but you have too look hard.

if you have any questions about Myfords, I have had 5 0 or 6 of them and have lots of experience using them.

You can always PM me if you don’t want to ask a stupid question on the forum. No question is stupid if you don’t know the answer.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Sounds like you have done well. You will get a lot of pleasure from that lathe. They are a good find if in good condition, which this one appears to be.

The 97T gear is an odd one, literally. Shall have to look up what you would ever use that for. If you do ever need to cut metric threads, it can be done with the standard gear set that you have by compounding them (two gears on one stud twice in a row). Martin Cleeve's book Screwcutting in the Lathe contains the charts to do this, and I think a member here has posted a spread sheet previously with his version of how to do it. Gives an accuracy of 1 thou in 8 inches in most cases — close enough for non-aerospace work!

Now you need to purchase two books that will tell you everything you need to know about using your Myford, from absolute beginner level to quite advanced:

The Amateur's Lathe by LH Sparey

Myford Series 7 Manual by Ian Bradley.

These are now your Old and New Testaments. Everything is in there. Both still in print and cheap to buy from Book Depository etc.

To get started you can find free PDFs of the original Myford ML7 Users Manual all over the net by Googling.

And don't worry about special oils etc for lubrication to get started. Plenty on here have used ordinary multigrade car motor oil for decades without problems. Others like common hydraulic oil available from car and tractor stores.

Enjoy! And keep us posted on your progress.

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Hopper

Both books are well worth getting. Glad to see the Ml7 book is still in print. I suggested to Chris at Soecial interest Books that he republished it many years ago but I had thought it, was out of print looking at EBay prices.

One or the book I would recommend is the George Thomas Workshop book. Lots of projects for rhe Myford owner.

There is another small book by a Model Engineer that is also based on a Myford but; I can’t remember his name. Might be called a Man and his lathe.

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Thanks both! I got a copy of the Myford Series 7 Manual thrown in with the lathe along with a set of carbide cutting tools and I purchased The Amateur's Lathe last week so already have both books sat on my bookshelf.

The lathe is home now but I have no way of lifting it out of the car boot until I can get some help at the weekend – not sure my wife would appreciate being asked to help move it so I'll keep myself entertained reading them this week.

Have a bit of 2" oak countertop going spare too so may knock up a quick bench for it using that until I can get a solid steel base laser cut for it.

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Ha – now I'm conflicted – a local garage tools for sale FB group has listed a 240vWarco BH600G for sale near me for £1450 that looks at first glance in fairly good condition. I may end up acquiring two lathes in very short order then selling the one I like least.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 14/03/2022 23:58:53:

Ha – now I'm conflicted – a local garage tools for sale FB group has listed a 240vWarco BH600G for sale near me for £1450 that looks at first glance in fairly good condition. I may end up acquiring two lathes in very short order then selling the one I like least.

Welcome to the world of lathes Michael, it's a very slippery slope, so many lathes so little time!

Great fun though, As well as the two recommended books you have, I'd second Davids recommendation of the George Thomas workshop book, there are some great accessories to make in there. Some of them such as the small boring, parting and screwcutting tools are great little projects, and I use them all constantly.

The Myford will be a great starter lathe, there will always be a bigger better one that comes along the day after you purchase anything. These days lathes are not scarce an there are lots about since the decline in industry, so no need to rush for anything. I once sold a lovely Drummond M type to buy something I thought would be much better- still regretting it decades later!

Dave

Having seen Hoppers post I had a look and L.H Sparey's A man and his lathe are still in print from Tee publishing for just over a fiver in the UK. Even available on Amazon so no need to pay the silly prices some are going for on ebay.

Edited By Dave Wootton on 15/03/2022 07:31:27

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by David-Clark 1 on 14/03/2022 23:31:27:

Hi Hopper

Both books are well worth getting. Glad to see the Ml7 book is still in print. I suggested to Chris at Soecial interest Books that he republished it many years ago but I had thought it, was out of print looking at EBay prices.

One or the book I would recommend is the George Thomas Workshop book. Lots of projects for rhe Myford owner.

There is another small book by a Model Engineer that is also based on a Myford but; I can’t remember his name. Might be called a Man and his lathe.

Hi David and welcome back. Yes I am a fan of GH Thomas too. Lots of projects there. A Man and His Lathe was a later Sparey, basically outlining the ML7/Super 7 and accessories. A nice promo for the maker. Not sure what goes on with eBay book prices. Some kind of automatic bots setting the prices as books still available for 10 quid are listed for 50 etc. Although, it looks like both I mentioned were last reprinted in 1998 and 1999, but still in stock at Book Depository and Tee Publishing.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 14/03/2022 23:58:53:

Ha – now I'm conflicted – a local garage tools for sale FB group has listed a 240vWarco BH600G for sale near me for £1450 that looks at first glance in fairly good condition. I may end up acquiring two lathes in very short order then selling the one I like least.

Haha spoiled for choice. It;s a bit bigger and heavier lathe than the Myford which is always nice. Search this site for previous threads on the BH600G and you will find out a bit more about them. Some complaints about noisy gears and other minor quality niggles. Part of that is the Chinese lathes use steel gears that are a bit roughly cut and tend to "ring" noisily. Myford uses cast iron gears, well cut, that tend to dampen noise more than steel.

But the Warco does have a quick change gearbox which makes life easier unless you want to cut special threads. It can be handy to have two lathes if you leave one set up for some tasks and the other for others. Also, the Myford has the vertical slide so you can do small milling jobs in the lathe, which is handy but a bit of a "make do " substitute for a proper mill. Its a relic from the era when mills were prohibitively expensive. But great to have when you need it.

Edited By Hopper on 15/03/2022 07:25:23

Edited By Hopper on 15/03/2022 07:26:07

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Mike,

Nothing wrong having two lathes, congratulations with your Myford. I find it very practical if I have one part that needs a bit of turning while another part is already mounted on the other lathe.

Thor

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi Hopper

i am guilty of selling the Bradley book at a high price. I purchased half a dozen copies whichever were the last if Chris’s stock and sold them for about £30 on EBay.

That was when I suggested he reprinted them, I needed more stock.

Some of the special Interest books sold very well but some did not.

It depended on the subject. I did have a list of republished books and sales quantities but that was sensitive information and may still be.

i thought A man and his Lathe might have been Sparey but was nut ste. It was a small, thin book with I think, a Blue cover. Lots of useful tips in it.

I forgot to mention my book “Turning In The Lathe” published by Crowood Press as well.

Not an affiliate link.

Their are good reviews and bad reviews. Some say it, is not beginner friendly, some say it assumes prior knowledge. Others say it is out dated, rehashed and others up to date. Yes, It is based on a Myford Ml7R lathe because thay is the lathe I had at the time. It does cover screw cutting as well, it shows the first and last thread I ever screw cut which I did for this book. Never found the need to screw cut before or since.

I have just ordered myself a copy, not read it in about 10 years. I think I will also order my milling book as well. Both are guaranteed to bring back happy memories.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi David!

I found that my ML7 was very sensitive about how it was fixed down, if the bed was not to be twisted.

I can thoroughly commend the Warco BH600. If it is in good condition, it will serve you well. I have had a lookalike since 2003 and it has been a very useful machine.

The BH600 used to be available in either Imperial or Metric form.

It should come with 3 and 4 Jaw chucks, Faceplate, Fixed and Travelling Steadies, at least one extra change gear to enable a full range of metric threads to be cut, and a 5MT/3MT sleeve..

The 120/127T idler enable changing from Metric to Imperial, or vice versa, screwcutting easy;

It is a capable, and should be accurate, machine, with induction hardened bedways. The Power Cross Feed is a useful facility..

In this time, my Engineers ToolRoom BL12-24 has machined a wide range of materials and sizes, (From 10 BA bolts to cast iron over 6" diameter. ) And cut screw threads of various pitches (4mm being the coarsest )

I made a sliding Tailstock Tap holder, based on ER 25 collets..

A 80T gear for the input to the gearbox, (I made one ) will halve the feed rate, although this meant repositioning the closure for the gear cover, destroying the knob in the process, and so needing to make a new one..

HTH

Howard

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