First Lathe – Colchester Triumph (1960s roundhead) vs Warco WM250v

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

If I were looking to buy a second hand mini lathe in the price range you mentioned – any suggestions for what I'd be best looking out for?

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 10/03/2022 23:22:47:

If I were looking to buy a second hand mini lathe in the price range you mentioned – any suggestions for what I'd be best looking out for?

VM250 or 920/918 mini-lathe.

Both can be moved around by two fit oldsters

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 11/03/2022 05:03:05

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose the higher priced item does have the advantage that you have been able to see it run and take test cuts. A cheaper e-bay purchase may just have to be bought from the photos or possibly with a few trips to view bought untested and that transport cost becomes high if you bring back a lathe with problems.

Upto you weather the extra cost is worth the peace of mind that you get from seeing the lathe in action.

Having had clients who have put meters onto their 3 phase so all phases could be used its the electricity supplier that will cost you and take the time not the easy bit that the electrician has to do. get a price from them before deciding.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Mike,

A lot of the tooling you mention that comes with the Colchester also comes with the Warco 250, in the purchase price it comes with a face plate, 5 inch 3 jaw and 5 inch 4 jaw, fixed and travelling steadies, 2 centres and other bits and pieces. Just pointing it out as I think you were thinking you would have to buy them on top but they are included in the package.

p.s If you do consider starting out with a mini lathe to learn the basics and gain experience I wouldnt recommend one of the smaller ones i.e. 7 x 14 size. I am not knocking them as like 1000,s of others its how I started and I did learn a lot and did some nice work but you soon come to reallise its short comings particularly its small size and lack of rigidity. As suggested something the size of a WM250 or similar would be a better starting point, I was lucky in finding a Warco 918 (920 type) in excellent condition, yes its had some mods and VFD but at 24 years old its a very nice machine so they are about.  

Edited By Ron Laden on 11/03/2022 08:31:47

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Mike

Just a pointer if it helps, within your budget is a Boxford AUD II in the classified ads, it looks and reads very well it comes with a wealth of tooling but I know nothing about Boxfords but I,m sure there are lots of guys on here that do.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I have owned a square head head triumph 2000 and both round head and square hd masters, most round heads are now at least 55 years old ,one problem with well used Colchesters is that the tailstock base wears where it slides along the bed which lowers the tailstock centre and unless you are skilled and have at least a decent sized mill any accurate repair is very difficult. and a lathe with a low tailstock centre is a pain in the backside,A big lathe can be very useful particularly as a back up to say a smaller lathe like a Boxford. £2500 is too expensive for any round head. i sold my1972 triumph for that price and that was in good condition with exception of the saddle feed kept dropping out and that is a heavy and difficult repair I also had a warning from the doctor that lifting heavy weights was causing some eye problems, and I had a buyer who owned one of the UK s largest hauliers and it went onto the lorry with a 17 ton hiab lift so I had no moving problems. I still manage ok with a square head Master 2500 which with 40 inch gap bed handle all my current work and is a very good lathe as it has f/rev clutch. I would advise as you lack experience going for a new lathe,though a 6 in/61/2in lathe with a long bed is a very useful size lathe more manageable and easier to use than a 7.5 inch lathe particularly the older you get. For experience try a smaller lathe,avoid mini lathes,I would recomend a Boxford,they were a good industrial quality lathe capable of hard work ,though many were sold to training establishments and got a few harm less dings and dents but did not get lots of wear and come a lot cheaper than a Myford.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Just a thinking out of the box suggestion, if you are in Cornwall theres a Simonet Atlantic lathe fully equipped in the Pennyfarthing tools website for two grand, from the late Maurice Clark's workshop. Also two very nice Boxfords on the Lathes UK website for the same money, Old Colchesters are great if you can get a good one……

The Simonet are lovely lathes to use. I'd love it but couldn't stand the upheaval of another machine change.

Dave

Edited By Dave Wootton on 11/03/2022 09:54:25

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Thanks everyone – felt like a bit of a b*stard but just let the owner know I won't be going forward with the purchase.

The Boxford in the Classifieds ad looks to be in absolutely stunning condition – but the distance is a bit of a challenge – young family, full time job and two small businesses so looking for something I don't have to travel long distances to collect myself (have the ability to tow myself if needed) and I imagine loading and transport via a specialist haulage company would be fairly expensive to get it from Kings Lynn to here.

That Simonet Atlantic on the Pennyfarthing's website looks beautiful and given it's in Cornwall should be fairly straightforward for me to collect. My hesitation with it is that the ad states it was never used in the shop it's based in and it's sold as seen.

I'll go take a look on the Lathes UK website at those two Boxford's now.

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

There's a second hand machine retailer on Facebook based in Cornwall who apparently has a Herbert No 3 Capstan available too – he's just pinged me a message – have absolutely no idea on those so off to do a bit of reading. Quick Google tells me it's likely to be pretty venerable though?

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Looks like I'd be in similar territory to the Colchester with this one – given it's an older machine. There's a single pic on his FB page and he's just sent me a second by DM. £2000 asking price and welcome to come have a play with it

Edited By Michael Smith 26 on 11/03/2022 12:40:16

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Michael, the Herbert is something you do not want! Purely a production m/c, good in it's day but CNC has made them all but obsolete. I seriously would not have it even if the owner offered me £2000 to take it away. What exactly are you going to do with the lathe when purchased?

Tony

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 11/03/2022 12:58:56

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Oh I absolutely wasn't planning on purchasing that Tony – just pinging it in here for reference.

Edited By Michael Smith 26 on 11/03/2022 13:01:29

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Actually have spotted something of interest – a Myford ML7 in Newquay that's currently for sale on eBay with a £900 starting price and new motor – link here

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

That is a heavy duty production machine. Do you have a nuclear power station in the back gardens to power it up?

if you need a capstan lathe, get a Herbert 2d (I think)) and remove the motor and replace with a single phase one on the back driving a 10 inch or so pulley using the old motor housing as a pulley countershaft.

I put one in a garden shed once, it was very heavy but quite manage last without the motor on it.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Hi Mike

I think you made the right decision as regards the Colchester you were looking at, and you won't go far wrong looking at a good Boxford. Regarding the Simonet in Cornwall I wouldn't disregard it just because it's not up and running, I know that Maurice Clark would not have bought anything that wasn't in good order, he may well have just been overtaken by events before he could commission it.

Malcolm that runs Pennyfarthing is very knowledgeable and straightforward to deal with, I've purchased machines from him a couple of times with complete satisfaction. Worth giving him a call if you were interested in it he is very approachable. No I'm not on commission, just a satisfied customer. Keep posting your options there is a wealth of experience available on the forum.

As for that Herbert, run away!

Dave

Not wanting to add to your dilemma but Project Machinery have a Colchester Bantam, Warco GH1322 ( I used one of these in industry and got to like and respect it) and a Warco 250V all at reasonable pricesand very well equipped, you do have to factor VAT in though. I bought my Myford 254+ from Project last year and was very happy with the machine, service and the pricing. Again Richard the owner is very approachable and knowledgeable. They have a website, my lathe was delivered by Richard, but he may arrange transport for longer distances.

 

Edited By Dave Wootton on 12/03/2022 06:56:26

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Michael, that Boxford one looks like a good buy and you would have about the same distance to travel as I did to fetch my Boxford from Glasgow with my car and trailer, but it took me about a 15 hour round trip. Mine is a CUD and weighs about 200Kg to give you some idea and I had no trouble towing it home. If I was looking for another lathe I would seriously consider it myself.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 12/03/2022 07:46:42

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Just had a good look at the Boxford on the lathes website, the one with the inverter on the front panel, What a lovely machine, lots of usefull equipment with it including collets. Just my opinion but worth travelling for, don't think you could go wrong with that.

Dave

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I also had a look at that Boxford,with the inverter,,at first it looks a bit pricey but it does have the Tesla drive which must have cost £500 and it has the invaluable t slot cross slide,and ,there cannot be many Boxfords in that condition,provided that it is as good as it looks it should give years of good work,At my first job the Boxford worked at least 4 out of 5 days per week and I worked on it a lot ,a good reliable machine, Why have I got a Boxford at home?well over 50 years ago A Boxford was far far more expensive than a Myford.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I agree the Boxford in the classified ads with all the tooling looks to be a very good package, if I had the space which I dont I would be seriously interested myself. Regarding too far away I think that is par for the course when you find a good machine, when I found my Warco 918 with all the mods and tooling I did a 400 mile round trip to collect.

At the end of the day Mike its your decision of course on what you go for but dont let distance put you off when you find something that ticks all the boxes.

My thoughts anyway.

Ron

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Smith 26 on 11/03/2022 13:05:25:

Actually have spotted something of interest – a Myford ML7 in Newquay that's currently for sale on eBay with a £900 starting price and new motor – link here

That one looks quite good actually. Looks pretty straight and unmolested. Maybe new paintwork with the old sticker put back on it? You can see scraper marks on the vertical shear towards the tailstock in one pic which is unusual. Either not used much or has the owner been at it with a scraper himself? Might be worth asking him about its history. I think it might be an earlier model with the steel oilers not glass? Nice but basic pile of accessories with it too. Change gears look to be all there, which is important.

The Myfords are not as good a lathe as a good Boxford and often are more expensive too, but a lot depends on location and condition too. A good Myford is better than a clapped Boxford.

Edited By Hopper on 12/03/2022 11:43:51

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Having delayed my entry into the hobby by agonising about best lathe to buy, I recommend keeping it simple and getting on with it! Time wasted by not owning a lathe is gone forever.

Watch out for kind folks who complicate decisions with their favourites and experiences: it's your needs and opportunities that matter. First, what sort of work is the lathe for? Best general advice is buy the biggest lathe you can manage because small lathes can't tackle big jobs. But small lathes are better suited to small jobs if that's your specialisation.

I make the following points:

• The WM250 is a new lathe suitably sized for a smallish workshop. Buying new in the UK means it's protected by Consumer Law in the event the purchase is a lemon. But the WM250 is a hobby lathe, made down to a price, and although of modern design it won't be particularly well-finished. I chose to buy a WM-series lathe because: buying new de-risks the purchase; I was able to choose the biggest machine that would fit in my workshop (a WM280); firm prices; and delivery included.
• You probably can't afford a new industrial machine, Far Eastern or Western. (£10,000 – £60,000-ish)
• The Colchester is an old lathe, history and condition unknown. It's a big heavy industrial machine made to a much higher standard than all hobby lathes including Myford. You will have to move and power it. Buyer beware because consumer protection doesn't apply to private sales and a quick paint and polish can make a heap of junk look good. A negative with well-made industrial lathes is the eye-watering price of spares. But there are plenty of machines in reasonable nick about.
• Buying secondhand, I strongly suggest the only thing that matters is condition. The best way a beginner can get a feel for that is to see and hear the lathe cutting metal. Therefore I'd pay more for a machine the seller was prepared to demonstrate and much less for the same model that couldn't be seen in action. I feel brand-names are almost irrelevant unless there's a straight choice available. Being a Myford, Boxford, Herbert, Colchester, Harrison, or Schaublin matters s*d all if the machine on sale is clapped out.
• Another problem with secondhand is deciding a fair price. You can get an idea from what others are paying, but a huge amount depends on condition, accessories and circumstances. Obviously the seller wants the most he can get, but he might drop the price for a quick sale if he's moving house, executing a will, or whatever. Also likely to drop the price if there's been little interest in the machine. If you like the Colchester, but feel it's overvalued, try a lower offer. Many folk dislike negotiating, but it's just business. Walking away or driving a reasonable bargain doesn't make you a bastard!

Dave

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I was in engineering all my working life and used many Colchester lathes, most of them nice to use. All where worn to some degree. At one place we ran Colchester Triumph 2000, replaced every 5 years totally worn out. industrial lathe's have a hard life in their early days.

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

Thanks everyone – appreciate all the feedback and sorry for the delay in responding I've been wrangling kids all day. On the Boxford – it looks absolutely stunning but I have a 2 year old, a 4 year old and a very busy schedule. Kings Lynn is 6.5 hours each way without stopping and I wouldn't be able to take anyone with me to help me load so think the logistics make it a bit too difficult which is a real shame – as I'd definitely be interested in it otherwise. Unless there's anyone on the forum or anyone is aware of a company that specialises in removal, loading and palletised delivery? Guessing that would be pretty expensive though.

Dave – really appreciate you pointing me towards the lathes on Project Machinery – that WM250 with the DRO looks pretty interesting for the money and Richard's website says he can arrange delivery. Depending on the delivery cost that might be a good option so I've sent him a text. I'll also follow up on the Simonet Atlantic on Monday too – think my other concern with that would be a lack of confidence when it comes to disassembling it as website states I'll have to arrange that part myself. With the Colchester the original owner would have been able to help me disassemble and load but I'd have to figure those parts out myself.

Hopper – thanks for the comments on the ML7 – that's only 40 minutes from me so I've messaged the seller to ask for a history and the nice thing with that is I can just throw it in the back of my pickup so transport is straightforward and assuming no one bids it up too high it'd leave a fair bit in the kitty for other stuff.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes, sometimes the lathe you can get is the best choice. And heck of a lot easier to transport than a lunking great Coldjester. I carried my ML7 and its steel bench home in the back of my little Toyota Corolla Hatchback. Took a bit of pulling to bits first but not too bad. Motor, cross slide, tailstock and chuck all removed and bed from the bench.

Good luck with the bidding!

[Michael Smith 26Participant @michaelsmith26]

That same Myford has just gone up on FB marketplace for £850 so pinged the seller a message on that too – that is pretty tempting particularly if they’re willing to accept an offer.

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