First 5″ loco

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

For some time I have been considering the Super Simplex loco as a first build but when checking on here this evening to try and find the correct magazine back issues, I have seen comments that it does not justify the simplex name because it is not simple. I've also seen some suggestions for a Sweat pea (and have driven one today and liked it) and also suggestions for an Achilles 0-6-0.

One member in my local engineering society has built a Simplex and one has buit a Sweat Pea so I should be able to get advice on either if needed.

I am reasonably competent in a workshop; mine contains a Myford-M-Type lathe, a Denford Triac miller (it's stripped down and I've set it up so I can use manual or CNC on it), a drill press etc. My most complex project to date is a gamma Stirling engine built from bar stock.

I have not yet worked with castings or had anything to do with boiler construction although I have done some silver soldering.

My question therefore is: based on my experience and facilities, what would be a good 5" tank engine as a first project? It does not have to be one of the ones I have listed but it needs to be well documented in case I get stuck.

Many thanks.

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

Hiya Bob

I'm currently in the process of building a Simplex. The useful thing with this engine is that there is always someone around who's got or built one, so you can have a look and see how they've done things.. also generally always one on sale somewhere to have a look at the pictures for ideas… they're all slightly different.

I'm no engineering expert… Have a chester 9×20 lathe and small mill, thats all.. the boilers can be made by any number of boiler makers (this way you know it wont leak!!!).. recommend getting the clack valves setup along the boiler rather than just on the back-head.

The castings are all freely available from many stockists, and there's a website on the North London SME regarding some errors on the drawings and how to get around the odd design glitch i.e. waterpump clearance.

Its alot down to personal taste… both Simplex (and Super Simplex), and Sweat Pea will do great work on track, but it depends what you like the look of…

Oh – another handy thing is that you can buy the Simplex tank plating in a kit form… that saves a HUGE amount of effort and frustration !!

Del.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

EskimoBob;

Two club members have simplexes; one the original, one the "Super" version. The original one was built on a ML7, with vertical slide.

They are great, but fairly large locomotives, compared to 3-1/2" gauge. A 3-1/2" gauge Rob Roy is easy to lift, do not try lifting a Simplex unless you are above normal in strength.

Saying that, they are great locomotives; as Derek says, lots of castings suppliers, and laser cut frames/platework might help you on your way.

Another JohnS.

[Mike WainwrightParticipant @mikewainwright87512]

EskimoBob

if you decide to make the simplex I have a set of cylinder castings and various other castings that are for sale.

Just make me an offer if you are in the UK as postage abroad would be expensive. I can let you have a set of drawings and a copy of the back issues of ME

Regards

Mike

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

If we're going a little off-topic and mentioning 3.5" loco's, theres a miriad of designs which are not too complicated… I have a 3.5" Netta which does a stirling job on the club track.. is easy to transport and very satisfying to run. Its a simple enough design (many of LBSC's are). I gather that Maisy is a good one too.

Personally I wouldnt go any smaller. Rob-Roy, Tich & Juliette are good for building exercises, but are frustratingly difficult to run and aren't very powerful.. so within a short time you'd want something with a bit more beef !

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Thanks for the thoughts guys – I posted on the weekend so have been keenly waiting for my post to be approved.

I was led to believe the 5" gauge is a better size for a first model because it is easier to get at everything but I guess there are many opinions on what is easy and what is fiddly.

I've been planning to make everything myself as money for for spending on hobbies is tight but that is perhaps over optimistic?

Mike, do you know if the castings and drawings you have would be suitable if I went with the Super Simplex design? – I am not sure of the differences but have read here that it is just cylinder bore sizes although I also thought the Super version was slightly longer. It was this confusion that led me to try and find the back-issue magazine articles here which I have still not managed to do

I saw a 5" gauge Leander running on the weekend – it was beautifully made

[pcb1962Participant @pcb1962]

A similar engine to Simplex that you might like to take a look at is Speedy. It has the advantage that a very reasonably priced construction manual is available (look for 'Building Speedy' on Tee Publishing's website). A third option is the LBSCR Terrier 'Boxhill', which is the one I have chosen to build from a shortlist of those three.

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Thanks pcb. I have been looking for the book for the simplex but they seem to go for vast sums on ebay.

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Been searching on the web tonight for differences between Simplex and Super Simplex – came across a thread of someone rebuilding one on madmodder forum and he commented that the differences were:

[quote]The supper has a slightly longer boiler with extra supperheater eliments, cylinder are a 1/16" bigger, the wheel base is longer by about 3/4" and the coupling rods have a different articulation method, and the boiler feed pump is of an improved design.[/quote]

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i think the main consideration is that it should be a loco you really want to build. it takes a hell of a lot of time, and to maintain that enthusiasm is important in my book.

personally i would stay clear of SIMPLEX and SUPER SIMPLEX. i know many will disagree, but they arent called 'COMPLEX' for nothing. the super simplex is grossely over cylindered with too large a bore. the axlepump you refer to wouldnt work as originally designed. personally i dont like locos with sloping grates which both the above have.

my first loco was a don young RAILMOTOR with No.2 chassis and No.1 boiler as advised personally by don to me. that was 29 years ago! as a beginner's loco i cannot recommend it enough, and don's construction series in ME 1968/9 is excellent. martin evans never drove locos like don did, and don's locos have that something extra compared to martin evans'. so please have look at don's designs… there are lots of excellent designs to choose from. don's designs also dont suffer from some awful valvegear errors and atrocious backheads that perpetuated in martin evans' designs. i am currently building a 5"g terrier STEPNEY, though i have hardly used the martin evans' drawings so far as they are so awful!

anyway, choose a loco you really like the look of that will maintain your enthusiasm, and avoid some of the well known dreadful designs! LBSC's MAISEE is an excellent loco as previously suggested, though the original boiler design is superior to the combustion chambered design in the book. my own favourite to recommend is LBSC's joy valve gear MINX (LBSCR C2X 0-6-0 loco ME 1949/51). unfortunately it isnt listed today….. but is an excellent 5"g loco IMHO

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 06/10/2012 00:24:01

Edited By julian atkins on 06/10/2012 00:26:00

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

It was interesting that the 'Mountain Goat' was one by a Speedy, followed by a 40 year old Simplex.

Neil

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Thanks Julian. Can you help me understand the Railmotor – when I googled it the first time, I found it shown as a tender loco however when I googled it again just now it looks more like a tank engine – I have to say, this particular engine looks very handsome indeed.

 

If the Don Young Railmotor is a tank engine, it looks quite compact – and I like toe box this one has for transportation

 

 

Earlier on in this thread, the Sweat Pea was mentioned and I had considered that before however now I see the Metre Maid 0-6-0 I am again tempted. Obviously a completely different looking loco but nice.

Edited By eskimobob on 08/10/2012 08:35:01

[Martin Walsh 1Participant @martinwalsh1]

The simplex was never a beginners locomotive

especially with the walcherts valve gear

which is very complex to make and to get working ,

Best Wishes Martin

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

RAILMOTOR in 5"g designed by don young…

there are actually 3 variations. No.1 is a model of the Rhymney Railway Hudswell Clarke 0-4-0(T) locos to which don added a tender rather than the carriage originally fixed to the back of the loco. the No.2 version has a smaller boiler and cylinders and a different arrangement of walshaerts valvegear. i built mine as a No.2 chassis (extended and 'narrow gauge-ified', with the bigger No.1 boiler). a very detailed construction series appeared in ME in 1968/9, and don himself built a No.1 RAILMOTOR with a boiler built for him by alec farmer.

the 3rd version is an LSWR S14 0-4-0T loco. 1 sheet of modified drawings by don and a construction article by steve titley and harry lumb appeared in don's magazine LLAS

as don acknowledged, the basic design can be easily altered to suit the builder's own taste. the basic design is unusual in that the rear axle is behind the boiler, so many builders extend the rear of the frames to give a more balanced looking loco, unless you are building a copy of the Rhymney Railway loco. the loco you have pictured has the rear of the frames lengthened.

the RAILMOTOR No.1 boiler is an excellent steam producer and very efficient.

i dont consider walshaerts valvegear unsuitable for a beginner. however having re-built a SUPER SIMPLEX, both the SIMPLEX and SUPER SIMPLEX valvegear parts require a great deal of work. the RAILMOTOR No.2 walshaerts valvegear is very easy to make and you can profile all the parts too if you want (and which i did).

cheers,

julian

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Many thanks Julian – I think I may have found the model for me

The No.3 looks superb. I have now found it on Reeves.

Presumably the construction series which appeared in ME in 1968/9 is still useful if I build the No.3 ?

You mention "don's magazine LLAS" – unfortunately LLAS doesn't mean anything to me – can you point me to where I might be able to get back issues either electronic or paper? – alternatively where to start looking?

I like the look of the one in the photo I posted so probably would want to extend the rear frame – are there details relating to that somewhere or do people just make it up as they go?

Questions question questions – so many questions!

Many thanks for your advice.

Martin

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

There are quite a few small 5" gauge locos that would seem to be a lot more practical for a first timer than a Simplex.

Before settling on a No 1 Railmotor I also considered Sweet Pea, Scamp, Gemma and a Y4 Dockyard Tank.

You can find a brief description of each and links to further info in this thread: **LINK**

Photos of a No 1 Railmotor here **LINK** or for a really horrible orange coloured example here **LINK** .

I was fortunate in that our local library has the ME 1968/1969 back issues containing the complete construction series for both the No 1 and the No 2.

Clive

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Ok, I've managed to find the online versions of model-engineer from 1969 (4 editions with a total of 16 pages) but I can't seem to find the online versions from 1968 – can anyone point me towards them??

Also I can't seem to find anything relating to the No.3 version by Steve Titkey and Harry Lumb. Any ideas?

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi martin,

i can send you copies of the LLAS article aand drawings for the LSWR S14. the very similar C14 class lasted well into BR days.

i suggest you try and buy a set of ME's for 1968 and 1969. if you have difficulties ive got a full set.

cheers,

julian

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

LLAS – Locomotives Large and Small covered n=both full-size and model railways.

Neil

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

Ah thanks for the explanation Neil

[eskimobobParticipant @eskimobob27950]

I'm planning on purchasing a full set of plans from reeves and then "building" this loco in my CAD program before cutting any metal. Hopefully I will get a better handle on the design so things are easier when I do start making chips. I also want to extend the rear frame as Julian suggested (or rather pointed out). Before I get started however I have a couple more questions:

1) Although I can work in imperial (I normally work in thou when designing PCBs) I am of an age where I generally think in metric. I can easily set my CAD to show the metric equivalents so that is easy enough however I am unsure whether to go with BA or metric fine threads. Are there good reasons to stick with BA threads rather than metric fine?

2) Am I right in thinking that gunmetal is used for the majority of castings available because it obviously does not rust so is best to use in any part that may come into contact with steam? – I'm pretty sure that I have seen cast iron used for pistons but surely that can rust so why use that there?

Lots to learn

[Author]

Posts