Fire Extinguisher for the workshop?

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

While not strictly a workshop tool, I couldn’t decide where else to post.

Looking at the various types of fire extinguisher, the Dry Powder (ABC) ones seem most appropriate for my workshop.  Apart from metalworking tools, it also contains wood and some flammable liquids like paint, thinners, oils and polishes.

Any thoughts/suggestions?  My main concern is that Dry Powder extinguishers aren’t recommended for use in confined spaces.  Yes, they do make a mess, but a small price to pay.

[Sonic EscapeParticipant @sonicescape38234]

I have also a dry powder fire extinguisher. Just one remark, it is a single use device. I was tempted to push the handle for 1 second just to see if it is working. But fortunately I read in time that once you use it the gas will leak anyway in a few days. The powder will prevent a perfect sealing.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The best all-rounder for a workshop would be a dry power type. A mess is better than a burnt down workshop.
Before they were banned I would have said BCF / Halon.

I actually have 3 in the workshop. A small aerosol can chemical one for quick / clean knockdown, a “main” 5kg dry powder and a 4kg CO2.

These look interesting:
https://shop.firexo.com
Universal liquid type. I know nothing more about them. Screwfix sell them too.

 

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I would not have a workshop without a couple of fire extinguishers. I had one freshly restored motorcycle catch fire from a wiring fault. Scariest moment of my life.

I have a small dry powder one attached to the door so it can be grabbed from outside upon entry in case of emergency, and a large full-sized one next to the main roller door.

Seems like they used to sell small aerosol sized CO2 extinguishers that would be handy for small fires and less mess but have not seen them for years.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I have a “bomb” type powder extinguisher hanging from the roof. It has a glass phial which should break if it exceeds a certain temperature (It has survived 45 deg C so far).  Advice is to take it down and gently shake the bomb every year to ensure that the powder does not “coagulate”. Outside the workshop, I have a second dry powder extinguisher in an insulated box – good place for wasps nests !

I used to have a maintenance contract for the house extinguishers (We only have a volunteer fire brigade) but found it cheaper to buy new every 4 years, and rotate the “old” ones to the garage – may be better than nothing if the gauge is still in the green.

The problem is of disposal as the re-cycling tip/ rubbish collection etc refuse them. I have in the past, “fired” the old units off and then sawn them in half so that they become acceptable.

Bob in deepest France

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Morning All,

Thanks for your comments.  Looks like dry powder (ABC) is the way to go.  Still concerned about the warnings “not to be used in confined spaces”, but I guess there’s not much I can do about that in a home workshop (double garage).

A good point from Bob in deepest France.  What’s the thinking on disposal of expired extinguishers?

I was thinking 2 x 1Kg extinguishers.  One by the door, and the other on the far side of the workshop.

[Graham StoppaniParticipant @grahamstoppani46499]

Agree that BCF was great until outlawed. I have a dry powder and a CO2 extinguisher in my garage, each one placed near the two exits.

Can I just make a point about the location of extinguishers. As it seems many are already doing, they’re best placed near an exit. The thinking is that fires can get out of hand very quickly and it is better to be heading towards an exit to fetch an extinguisher rather than away from one and then find yourself trapped.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I have to admit to having BCF extinguishers near each door, we used them at work for engine fires so hopefully poking it through a small door gap should do the buisness. Wouldn’t want to test the theory though!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This chart summarises what types of fire the main types of extinguisher are good and bad at:

 

Confirms that the best all-rounder for a metal workshop is the powder type, though I vote for CO₂ in the optimistic hope it will put the fire out without leaving an enormous mess!   Another disadvantage of CO₂ is that, handled incorrectly, they frost-bite the user.  Always read the instructions.

Years ago my employer provided a wonderful afternoon’s fire-fighting in a large empty car-park.   A couple of firemen turned up in a van full of time-expired extinguishers for us to play with, and the wherewithal to create wood, petrol, and chemical fires.  Their boiling chip-pan demonstration was terrifying!

Three important points came out:

• Fires can and do grow far, far faster than one expects based on ordinary experience.
• Never use the wrong type of extinguisher for the type of fire!  At the time, the old building I worked in was fitted with fire-hoses and cone shaped water filled extinguishers.   The firemen advised these were unwise in an office now full of electrical equipment, and then put a nail in the coffin of the cone extinguisher by asking a young woman to set one off.   She had difficulty lifting it, and then found it impossible to hit the end hard enough to set it going.   A man managed to set it off by using his shoe as a hammer, but the only reliable way was to swing the end hard against a solid wall.    Much more awkward than expected and then you have to aim a silly little rubber hose!
• Most fire extinguishers aren’t big enough!  They’re only effective on small fires, before one has had time to grow.  If you buy an extinguisher, make it a whopper.

At the time I did the course, staff were encouraged to fight fires, though it was emphasised we should not take risks.  Later, this was changed.   In an old-fashioned building, the main risk was burning wood and paper, on which water is effective.   Not so in a modern building, because they are stuffed full of plastics, have false ceilings through which flame and toxic smoke can spread rapidly, loads of electrical  appliances, and maybe windows that can’t be opened or broken.

The policy changed to:

• If an individual found a fire, no matter how small, they were to ignore the extinguisher, trigger the alarm, clear the building and report as accurately as possible the nature and location of the fire.
• If two or more people found a small fire, one could try an extinguisher, whilst the other triggered the alarm and cleared the building. as above  Only one extinguisher was allowed: if it failed, no more should be done by staff until the professionals arrived.  Everyone evacuated the building, and the training emphasised that was top priority.
• Outside, staff congregated in specific areas where one of them acted as Fire Marshal, identifying if anyone was missing, and aware of any specific hazards in their area.  When the brigade arrived they got a fairly accurate description of the problem, including the possibility of persons trapped, and anything particularly nasty in way of inflammables.   In theory, quite well organised, but it’s amazing what defects fire drills occasionally found.

Although my first instinct is to protect property, this is usually wrong because the cost of injury or death quickly exceeds the cash value of everything else.  You may not have much time when a fire starts, and lots of people are overcome by fumes before they realise there is any danger.  The old Carbon Tetrachloride extinguishers were excellent at extinguishing fires, but using them indoors was downright dangerous.  Carbon Tet is a powerful anaesthetic, and heat breaks it down to release Hydrochloric Acid fumes and Phosgene which is a chemical weapon.   The fire is out, no survivors!

Thankfully serious model engineering workshop fires must be rare:  I’ve never seen one reported.

Oh, and if a metal fire is possible, due to turning Magnesium or Titanium then have a bucket of dry sand handy!   Dry sand is also good in the unlikely event a heap of Aluminium swarf some how gets going.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Certainly one fire reported here, was it TerryD who’s shop completely burn down. And we won’t go into Malcom Strides one.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the main reason for having these fire extinguishers in your garage, house of an office etc., is not for one to fight the fire, per se, and they should be placed where you can reach them easily, in order for you to escape the fire. We all know it is best to extinguish a small fire that starts, but you should not waste your time trying to put a fire out that has established itself, and put yourself into a situation that you cannot escape from, which would make matters worse if you have expired the contents of your extinguisher.

This is what I was taught on a B/A / fire course that myself and two other workmates went to, at our local fire brigade station, which was very interesting and really opened up ones understanding of the real dangers of fire and fire fighting. Those that do their job, really do earn their pay and our respect.

I remember Terry D’s fire, and the damage to his workshop, machines and tools etc.

Regards Nick.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Good morning All,

I’ve decided to buy a 2Kg Dry Powder Extinguisher, and see that some are specified as “rechargeable”.  Does anyone know how feasible that is?

It’s not a matter of saving money (assuming it will?), but may be easier than trying to dispose of one that’s expired.  Plus, I also like the idea of recycling rather than disposing of what’s probably still a perfectly good piece of equipment (apart from being expired of course).

I’m guessing it would need returning to the manufacturer.  Although that may well thwart the idea!

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Bo’sun, the company that I used to work for many years ago, had rechargeable dry powder fire extinguishers, but they were done by a contract company that supplied and serviced all type of extinguishers. It was probably cheaper that way, and no doubt satisfied the insurers.

Regards Nick.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Thanks Nick,

The more I think about it, the more I wonder, is it worth the faff?

I’ll contact the company that services the FE’s on our Scout Campsite and see what they’ve got to say.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

They’ll probably want you to sign a maintenance contract..

Your local Fire Service will (should?) advise on what to do with expired extinguishers – At one time you could drop them off there, but I guess times may have changed..

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Unless obviously faulty e.g. pressure gauge shows zero, an extinguisher past it’s recommened life is still useful as a back-up. In reality if it is holding pressure and the powede is still loose in the case of a dry powder there is little to go wrong.

Otherwisw they can be used for practice but a dry powder or foam one will make quite a mess.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Up here in Lancashire, our local ‘recycling centre’ (used to be a tip) is happy to take fire extinguishers, they have a section set aside for them next to the gas cylinders.

Rob

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

The sand bucket is a good plan for lithium batteries. In fact maybe a bucket of sand is quite a good idea as a standard extinguisher as well as a powder type.
regards Martin

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I am not recommending this, but it seems a low cost automatic system that can also be used manually if you can lob it at the source of a fire and at £12/year is cheap ??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-Extinguisher-Suppression-Self-Activation-Transportation/dp/B0CH19D1CC/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=1D9ISBBF11VVQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aCbZSokd9ssZtSaaZCGGJMov3lQjdc4JyJ1U17apa5_BhBGQjQ0RE-FQ0C_o9nZyVBe1zHO6CZZfS5WG21mfaEIIq7FejPcOtaMmYouSmsy3y68NrQlRHYYGifOAKCVKWRqDYJVToHpGNZEsCddiYvxfQZskHvjffL7ijhH9PDMsJ3_q_kLuD5yXHfxa-55M0l10t_YDawkycrchvJxw6Q.2vyKuVrWoWlDURzXx-68YgnN59WZZJg3Se3Q5O0QnAs&dib_tag=se&keywords=fire+extinguisher+bomb&qid=1717510839&sprefix=fire+extinguisher+bomb%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-17

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

In response to the concern about using in a confined space, the active ingredient in most powder fire extinguishers is Monoammonium Phosphate which is a relatively common fertilizer. It has no significant health risks upon exposure, but can cause irritation to the eyes and to the upper respiratory tract. These extinguishers are intended for use indoors, and provided you stand with your back to the exit door when using the extinguisher (which is usually recommended anyway), then there is little risk of being unable to find your way out if either your eyes or breathing are affected.

Whether they are worth it, I suppose that depends on your views on life and property. Those of us trained in and/or familiar with using fire extinguishers would probably grab one and try to put out a fire. Those not trained would probably be best advised to just get out while you can. Machinery is replaceable, you’re not.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Thank you Perko7,

That’s reassuring.  Just bought a 2Kg DP extinguisher.  Now need to dispose of 2 expired 1Kg extinguishers.  Local Fire & Rescue advised taking them to the tip, or whatever they’re called these days.

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

Although I have seen the charts produced by extinguisher  companies  suggesting the CO2 extinguishers are suitable  for liquid fires I would never  ever  us wone  on such a fire . At one of the training courses  I attended as a Science Teacher  we were invited to use  a variety of extinguisher types on a range of  burning materials  When a colleague was handed a CO2  extinguisher  to put out a tray of burning liquid  I took two paces back . The fire Offices saw me do so and smiled . When the extinguisher was used the fire  ball  was ,to say the least, impressive .His advice was never to use  one on a liquid fire.

 

Brian

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

For anyone interested.

Further to my comment regarding recharging 1Kg DP extinguishers.  A local fire protection company didn’t consider it realy to be worthwhile.  £19 + £4 for commissioning (whatever that entails).  I didn’t ask, but presumably there’s VAT to be added and a shipping cost.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Currently about 18 in my workshop.  Mixture of CO2 and Foam, Mostly CO2.  I had six and then emptied a set of offices and was able to keep all the fire extinguishers (they were around 2 yeas old).  Once I have sussed out how many I want to keep the rest will be distributed with friends for their garages/workshops.

I have had two garage fires.  When I had the first one I had no extinguishers.  When I had the second (gas fluxer failed) I had Halon extinguisher.  Always had around four since then spread around the workshop.  Also CO2 and dry powder units in various locations in the house.

Colin

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

At the museum, we have lots of extinguishers, as you would expect, and the suppliers were installing a foam extinguisher next to one of the mills and I asked whether it could be used on fires that were electrical. The answer was yes, modern foam is a dilectric and safe to to use on all fires. They are better than anything else on flammible liquid fires, I know from experiance.

It would be worth checking with the supplier if the thought of dry powder mess was too much, I also know what a mess they can cause.

As M K advises, a sand bucket would be the best thing to smother a fire involving lithium batteries.

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