Finishing – Brush, rattlecan or airbrush?

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

Having just completed the maching on my Stuart 10V, my thoughts turn to finishing. Options are brush, rattlecan or should I invest in an airbrush? Any recommendations out there? Clearly brushing is the cheapest and airbrush at the higher cost, with the added complexity of cleaning. Is the improved finish worth the investment?

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

[Gordon TarlingParticipant @gordontarling37126]

If you don't already have the airbrush equipment, then brushing is probably the best way to go. I've painted one or two small steam engines with a soft brush and Humbrol enamel and have been quite pleased with the results. Make sure you use the correct primer for whichever metal you're painting.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I used a brush with paint from Phoenix Precision (two of their railway colours) on cast iron without a primer (this may not have been correct but the finish has remained good for a few years now). Read the instructions! Obviously get everything clean first. Then use the paint from a small jar, not the paint pot. The brush was good quality, expensive, bought from the local artist's shop. The paint was applied, unthinned, in very thin coats with a good time between coats. The colour of the metal surface was still visible through the early coats. Finish when you are happy.

There are a couple of photographs in my album.

JA

[Russell FurzerParticipant @russellfurzer50760]

I hate painting. I painted my 10v with green enamel spray paint that I had bought for a Lister diesel (full scale) project.

I sprayed a splodge on to a saucer and then used a paintbrush. I had degreased the surface first but didn't prime it.

I was quietly pleased by how good the outcome was, and has stayed. Luck rather than judgement perhaps

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Some people who buy airbrushes find it's best to go on one of the courses that are around in order to learn how to use them effectively. I'd guess it's largely a matter of paint mixing and settings as it is with car spraying etc.

John

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[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

If you buy an airbrush then you will need to buy a compressor too. The costs soon add up. How much painting do you intend to do in the future ?

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

Good feedback, yes I agree an airbrush/compresor would be an investment. As for future work. sill to decide on my follow-up model from the 10V. It's predecessor was a wooden ship model, all painted via brush and that does show up as not being the greatest finish

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I tend to split it about 40% of models with airbrush and 60% with cans.

Finish is more down to the amount of prep work you put into the castings than the final paint.

I went into a bit more detail when I described the painting of this engine and this one was airbrushed though prep was similar.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Do the airbrush paints need thinning etc Jason or are some sources ok as they come?

I have wondered about getting one. I do have a small conventional compressor rather than the types people sometimes buy for airbrushes. It came with a tack gun and a few other bits and pieces. Bought because I needed to replace a timber conservatory roof and used the tacks to hold it together before fixing properly – a substitute for needing more hands. Costs were pretty low and I would guess it would drive an air brush easily. It's not too bad with spray gun that came with it. The nail gun has proved useful – replacing rusted out nails on a tanalised fence for instance. If I used a hammer bits would break. Other odd bits of work too. A useful if seldom used purchase. It's paid for itself easily.

John

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[Dave Powell 2Participant @davepowell2]

I have just learnt how to do airbrushing so I could paint my 2 1/2 inch Flying Scotsman, I am delighted with the result. If you get it right no further cutting or polishing is required. What I found worked for me is to thoroughly degrease first, use aerosol primer then flat it back with 1200 grade wet and dry. I used Craftsmaster enamel thinned at about twice as much thinner as paint. I did a fairly thin coat first followed fairly soon after by a good coat that left a wet look to the paint. I let that dry quite well then put on another coat. I practiced on scrap first and had to try several times before I got a finish that I was happy with. After lining I applied 3 coats of clear varnish from the same company and the finish is the best I have ever achieved. The airbrush set was about 20 quid, I used my standard compressor set to about 45 psi. You can get a very good finish from rattle cans, as other posters have stated it's the preparation that really matters. Always use a good primer and rub it down to a glassy smooth finish before putting the top colour on – at least that is what worked best for me.

Best of luck

Dave.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John the enamels we tend to use do need thinning to about the consistancy of milk with the right thinners. Same with the heavier pigmented acrylics and don't be tempted to thin them with water use a proper thinner and/or extender.

There is a large range of "airbrush" paints sold but they are generally aimed for artwork and are really too transparent for use on anything but a white surface and they have a very thin film depth so not really suitable for castings and bar/sheet.

Your compressor will be fine, I use something similar so long as it has a regulator and ideally a moisture trap especially if spraying in humid weather as there is nothing worse than having the airbrush spit a drop of water onto your work.

Also avoid the brushes with very fine nozzels, they are really for inks and liquid colours and don't pass the larger pigments that our paints use.

Finally just like any other tool you get what you pay for.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The thinning seems to be the catch with spraying Jason. Years ago I bought an Apollo spray gun for cars. What I didn't do is go on a free course they ran on Sat mornings. The sprayer came with the usual small cup with a hole in the bottom for seeing how much thinners were needed – so many seconds to drain through the hole.

I used it several times but always got some orange peel even when heated afterwards will still wet with an electric fire. My brother borrowed it and a sprayer from where he worked came along and sprayed a replacement wing on his car. The sprayer told him where to go for the thinned paint and also to have some retarder added – finish like glass.

It all seems to be down to how much the paint is thinned plus things like retarders. I'd guess air brush courses for people who lack some one to show them how might be the best solution to getting things right quickly.

One trick I have seen used with synthetic enamels, Techaloid in this case, a very good coach paint is to thin it with white spirits and apply with a brush but it takes a long time to dry so dust can be a problem.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

It looks like choosing an airbrush is something of a task, Anything from sub £10 to a £100 plus. The amazon reviews are interesting but often don't mention if suitable for synthetic enamels. Then there is the choice of gravity fed or suction plus what are really miniature spray guns which even use air streams to shape the pattern = nvg for air consumption but probably the best way of doing it.

John

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[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by JasonB on 21/12/2015 13:21:39:

Finally just like any other tool you get what you pay for.

.

I concur.

When purchasing my first airbrush I bought cheap (ish) …… Guess what.? I ended up buying twice.

I forget which Iwata I ended up buying. But it's the one that Jason recommended to me. I also think he did a mag review on it some time ago.

There was a massive difference in the ease of use and the finish between the 2. I also forget the price. But while it was not a cheap item it was not major beer vouchers either.

Nick

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You must spend a lot on Beer Nick, this one

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by JasonB on 21/12/2015 16:36:36:

You must spend a lot on Beer Nick, this one

.

Ooops. My mistake. That is not the one I have. I will have a nosey when I get home as to which one it is.

Nick

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I'm not so sure about getting what one pays for with items like this. Made (maybe) in Japan too – they fell on hard times and have no real competition in some areas = expensive.

That one looks a bit like the Draper one anyway available with a huge discount as usual.

I suspect I would look for a good buy on a Paasche after looking around. The VL sets come with a full range of jets and spares are available. They seem to have a good reputation but must admit that in recent years people I have conversed with in the USA often bemoan the quality of the products made there now.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 21/12/2015 20:31:47

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John I can assure you after being involved with the sale and service/repair of airbrushes for 20 years you do get what you pay for and Iwata are one of the well respected brands. That Neo is as good if not better than the couple of Paasche (with a S) brushes I have

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I feel that the Neo would cause me to feel guilty once I added other bits to the price of the basic gun Jason. I often feel like that about purchases and to be honest it often saves me a lot of money.

So as it was available with a substantial discount went for this one

**LINK**

Might be a bad decision but I have wondered about getting one each time I need to paint something and it should handle anything I might need to use.

I hope. And if not it can always go on ebay. I suspect that the biggest problem will be me.

I think I will add one of their inline moisture traps even though the compressor has one.

One thing to add. It looks like it uses either suction or something like a syphon feed via a cup – odd but assume that it will work with both.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 21/12/2015 23:33:47

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi stuart,

my Stuart 10H was brush painted with enamel. it is far less faffing about than with spraying, but i have sprayed some of my locos. if you get a good quality brush and know your paint and know how to load the brush and level the strokes and dont hang about then you can get a very good finish – then put in cabinet to dry.

cheers,

julian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by John W1 on 21/12/2015 23:30:30:

One thing to add. It looks like it uses either suction or something like a syphon feed via a cup – odd but assume that it will work with both.

The air passing through the narrow nozzel creates a vacuum and draws the paint up the tube inside the jars, you will also notice that the pipe in the side cup actually goes to the bottom of the cup so that draws the paint up in exactly the same way as the paint level in the cup will be below the body of the airbrush.

You probably won't get much use out of that cup as they are really only suitable for when working on near vertical artwork anything else and you risk tipping the paint out of the cup. On my brushes of that style I use a cup with a cranked pipe which allows the brush to be tilted more or I have cups with lids (eg the Iwata). For artwork I use the gravity feed brushes with an open slot or small integral top cup but may only be using a drip or two of a colour at a time.

We used to mostly sell the Badger range and their equivalent set the 150-5-PK was very popular, I would suggest the #5 tip and needle for ME type models.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Thanks Jason. I didn't really look at Badger but they could well be available discounted from the USA.

I'm surprised by the #5 tip and needle as it's a lot bigger than what most brushes seem to come with and thought that the #3 with a 0.73mm opening would be suitable. i live and learn.

John

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[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

We are told to prepare, clean and degrease all surfaces before painting. Could those with experience please explain how they go about this procedures?

Jim {Always keen to relearn what he has forgotten – again)

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi jim,

i clean everything with cellulose thinner.

brass gets additionally cleaned with fine wet and dry just before painting.

cheers,

julian

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