Finally got a proper lathe

[DellParticipant @dell]

Baz

i forgot to say my 6’X6’ cubbyhole has all the gubbins for my central heating so it’s never cold in there, although it is in the wood shed where I have my mill.

Dell

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Any lathe is a real lathe, no matter what size it is. I have a little 7 x 12 Chinese lathe in my garage, not used much as the Smart & Brown model A at the museum is much nicer to use. There are many improvements that can be made to cheap lathes which make them smoother and more accurate. Myfords are the right size for most model makers and will give many years of pleasure, they are not industrial production machines, that is not what they were designed for. There are people making superb models with very limited facilities and there are those who have all the gear and no idea, you know what I mean.

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

Nice lathe, I think you'll have loads of fun with that. I've been starting my myford.with the Dewhurst switch for 20 years with no problem at all.and it was old when I bought it.

[Richard MillingtonParticipant @richardmillington63972]

I used to have one a few lathes ago. You look to have made a good buy, later one with taper bearing headstock and leadscrew clutch. They are surprisingly capable for their size.

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

Bobcha used to have an ml10 and was looking at super7's at auction so I don't know what he is on about.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Dell on 17/02/2023 15:25:55:

… tangential tool holders finally arrived from Australia ,…

Dell

Just out of interest, how long did the shipping take Australia to UK once the seller had dispatched it?

It seems to be taking about 4 to 5 weeks at the moment coming the other way — A week from regional UK to Sydney, a week in customs and then 3 weeks sitting in Australia Post's depot before they get around to delivering it. Just wondering if they are so slack with outgoing shipping. It used to be 10-14 days total for incoming before Covid so not sure what has slowed it down now that is all over.

Edited By Hopper on 22/02/2023 21:52:53

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by old mart on 22/02/2023 19:00:08:

Myfords are the right size for most model makers and will give many years of pleasure, they are not industrial production machines, that is not what they were designed for.

I'm not so sure about that, there are plenty out there which appear to have been used for production work doing small parts where the output didn't warrant investment in a small turret lathe like a Herbert №0 or №1.

I would guess most were kept alongside bigger lathes which were used more intensively, but they filled a niche commercially as well as being the model makers darling.

.

This said, you do have to get a Super-7 with all the optional bells and whistles to have all the "proper" features for a fully equipped lathe, but most of that is quality of life stuff like feed trips, separate power feed, and a screw cutting gearbox, rather than missing functionality.

If you were trying to do it down, the biggest legitimate criticism is probably that it's mildly frustrating there's never been an option for a full screw cutting gearbox which can do both metric and imperial without switching change gears…

[DiodeDickParticipant @diodedick]

It is a lovely bit of kit – looks as good as new. By comparison my old warhorse of an ex-industrial ML7R looks like it has just been pulled out of a skip.

What caught my eye was the dog clutch on the leadscrew. I put one on my first lathe (a Flexidpeed Meteor) but it had an extra leadscrew bearing below the front mandrel bearing. I wasted a lot of time looking for an elegant way of providing that support without building three-quarters of a QC gearbox shell.

I wish had seen that photo 20 years ago. Too late now…

Dick

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by DiodeDick on 22/02/2023 23:04:44:

It is a lovely bit of kit – looks as good as new. By comparison my old warhorse of an ex-industrial ML7R looks like it has just been pulled out of a skip.

What caught my eye was the dog clutch on the leadscrew. I put one on my first lathe (a Flexidpeed Meteor) but it had an extra leadscrew bearing below the front mandrel bearing. I wasted a lot of time looking for an elegant way of providing that support without building three-quarters of a QC gearbox shell.

I wish had seen that photo 20 years ago. Too late now…

Dick

I have a bit of material sitting there waiting to make such a dog clutch for my ML7. I thought I might add a support bearing on the leadscrew end just to the right of the clutch though, being a bit of a belt and braces kind of guy.

Then I saw the reprint of an old article in the February MEW for a rather neat way to do similar by making a sliding dog clutch on the outboard side of the large gear on the end of the leadscrew. The gear spins on a bushing when disengaged. The dog clutch is keyed to the leadscrew and engages two pins into holes drilled in the large gear, all operated by shaft and a lever in about the same position as the ML10 lever. You don't need to cut the leadscrew that way.

But the single-tooth ML10 type clutch has the advantage it can be used for screwcutting on TPIs that are multiples of the leadscrew, eg 8, 16, 24, 32 and 40 tpi. Handy with a knock-off bar to trip the lever when screwcutting up to a shoulder. You can screw cut at turning speeds and get a nice finish that way. The gear clutch with two small pins does not have that capability due to two possible engagement positions.

Decisions decisions.

Edited By Hopper on 23/02/2023 02:08:17

[DellParticipant @dell]

Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2023 21:52:24:

Posted by Dell on 17/02/2023 15:25:55:

… tangential tool holders finally arrived from Australia ,…

Dell

Just out of interest, how long did the shipping take Australia to UK once the seller had dispatched it?

the holders took 14 days to arrive although according to tracking it was in the air for 6 days must be one hell of a big fuel tank on that aircraft.

Thanks for all the comments

Dell

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Dell on 23/02/2023 07:25:23:

Posted by Hopper on 22/02/2023 21:52:24:

Posted by Dell on 17/02/2023 15:25:55:

… tangential tool holders finally arrived from Australia ,…

Dell

Just out of interest, how long did the shipping take Australia to UK once the seller had dispatched it?

the holders took 14 days to arrive although according to tracking it was in the air for 6 days must be one hell of a big fuel tank on that aircraft.

Thanks for all the comments

Dell

Thanks. A lot quicker than the other way, by about three weeks! Yes that flight must have circled the globe several times! Or it included a few days stopover in Bahrain or Singapore etc as often happens,but all counted as "in flight" as far as the post office or courier company is concerned.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Don't be discouraged! FANTASTIC work can be done on a small lathe.

Any fool can produce scrap on a good machine. The skill is in making the best use of the machinery that you have.

As you become accustomed to the lathe, you will find more and more jobs that can do it, and do well..

Remember the country parson, who havinng insisted on a detailked bill for reparing the church organ "Hammering 6d, knowing where and how to hammer, 19/6"

Howard

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

they are not industrial production machines, that is not what they were designed for.

One of my former customers would disagree with that assertion – they had several ML-7Rs operated by women used in the production of taps & dies. Another started his business in his shed with a Super 7 and grew substantially from there, and it was quite common to find a Super7 or ML7 in tool rooms in large enterprises.

I would hazard a guess that light industrial, tool rooms, repair workshops & education was exactly what the Myfords were designed for – that they happened to be suitable for hobby users & that their "designed for mass production using the methods of the time" made the costs pallatable for that market was a happy coincidence.

I guess that when Myfords became dependant upon model engineers was when they decided to call it a day.

Nigel B.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

"Lightweights" or not, I have seen ML7s and their successors used in toolrooms, camera repair workshops, and others successfully earning their living from them.

So can see no reason why a ML10 cannot do similar work, within ikts capabilities.

maybe the limiting factor with any machine is operator skill?

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 23/02/2023 15:39:23

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mgnbuk on 23/02/2023 12:54:47:

they are not industrial production machines, that is not what they were designed for.

One of my former customers would disagree with that assertion – they had several ML-7Rs operated by women used in the production of taps & dies. Another started his business in his shed with a Super 7 and grew substantially from there, and it was quite common to find a Super7 or ML7 in tool rooms in large enterprises.

I would hazard a guess that light industrial, tool rooms, repair workshops & education was exactly what the Myfords were designed for – that they happened to be suitable for hobby users & that their "designed for mass production using the methods of the time" made the costs pallatable for that market was a happy coincidence.

I guess that when Myfords became dependant upon model engineers was when they decided to call it a day.

Nigel B.

Hmmm, round here quite a lot of parcels are delivered by self-employed people driving their private cars. This does not mean private cars were designed for delivery work, and, although cars do OK within their limitations, vans are generally more suitable.

I'd describe the Myford as a 'bench lathe'. They're intended for light general purpose work rather than knocking out thousands of widgets. Not quite robust enough for industry or education, both of whom usually bought heavier equipment. I don't think a Myford would last long in a busy factory stuffed with lines of lathes, all working double or triple-shifts at piece-rates.

Nor do manual lathes of any make compete with modern methods:

Small workshops were much more common before 1965 because most of the world was mechanical, and lots of non-standard stuff wore out and needed repair. Most workshops needed a jobbing lathe, and Myford were a good choice. Plenty of competition though – look at the sheer number of Small English lathes listed on lathes.co.uk.

Myford destroyed many of them just after WW2 by introducing a machine priced within reach of hobbyists, that was just the right size for a shed, and a distinct improvement over the competition. Still made down to a price though, as can be seen by comparing them to a Boxford of the same date. Hobbyists didn't buy Boxfords though; never mind the quality, feel the price!

Dave

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Myford would appear to disagree with your assesment of their customer base, Dave – the opening paragraph for the Super 7 brochure reads :

"Established thorughout the world as a symbol of precision & performance, the Lathes of the Myford Series 7 range are used in production, repair and maintenance workshops, technical schools, scientific laboratories, also by serious model makers and hobbyists".

Note "serious model makers and hobbyists" being the last stated audience. Even a "cheap" Myford would have been a serious investment by most "normal" people's standpoint in the '50 & '60s, so I would not expect that that market was large. Strangely I felt that I had gained in capability (if not in capacity) when I swapped my Boxford CUD for a Super 7, but each to their own !

Hopefully the OP will get many years of enjoyment from his new aquisition.

Nigel B.

[DiodeDickParticipant @diodedick]

Hopper mentioned a leadscrew clutch design inthe Feb MEW, which I have not read. It sounded like the Duplex design in ME 3rd Nov 1949, page 573 on. Apologies for the poor quality of the photo from that article in my album – I am between computers, and hence scanners just now.

Dick

[DellParticipant @dell]

I have a busy weekend as this all turned up yesterday, wife said that should keep me out of mischief for a while.

Dell

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Myford DID NOT offer induction hardened bed ways, lever operated collet chucks, cut off slides, self indexing capstan turrets and all the tooling that went with them for the model engineer, not even the serious ones ! The capstan unit cost as much as a bare ML7 in the 70s.These items were for production work !

As an apprentice I would have to use a little John for small work in a factory making measuring equipment. Noel.

[JAParticipant @ja]

The Myford ML7 and Super 7 lathes were very popular laboratory and tool room light lathes. The father of a school friend, when I was about 8, had a ML7 (if my memory serves me well). Then secondary school had one which I tried to use without instruction (no one knew anything about lathes). One of the labs at Derby Tech had a S7 instrumented to measure cutting forces. At university I spent a vacation using an S7 in the instrument room. After then I did not see Myford lathes in such places, except for a long bed Myford at a clock maker in Holland, until volunteering at my old company's archives (the attached workshop had a big Dean, Smith and Grace lathe and an S7).

A friend who worked at the CEGB Berkeley Labs tells me their instrument room had about 5 S7s.

Strangely I never saw Boxfords in such places. Perhaps it was easier to sell to schools.

Dell – You are going to have fun with that lot but some time try to be mischivous and made somthing. Just keep us informed.

JA

Noel – I know what you are saying but I do not think your comment reads correctly. The hobby model engineer was offered and could buy all the bits you mention but Myford probably considered them as "industrial" etc items. I ordered my "Big Bore" Myford with an induction hardened bed.

Edited By JA on 25/02/2023 12:44:53

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

JA,Your right ! A 1993 brochure shows all the accesories listed and in use ! But by 1995 the price list only shows the LO collet chuck still available. Changing times ?

A number of years ago I bought the remnants of an S7, it had some holes drilled/threaded in the bed, there was not a mark on the bed and NO saddle. It had been adapted for some industrial use, with a 3Ph motor. There's a thought – dig out the motor and buy a VFD, put it on the Long bed S7. Noel.

[DellParticipant @dell]

I can’t believe how quiet it is compared to the original motor, I have faced both ends of a bit of stock but I need to make a new shaft to be able to fit the Multifix and although I have had 2mm of the bottom of my Glanze tool holders it is to high by 1mm or there about’s so I think I am going to take the compound or is it crosslide never sure to a nice man I know that has an engineering company to get 2mm milled of the top.

Dell

[JAParticipant @ja]

One other comment on non-hobby use of Myford lathes. They were cheap enough to be modified for one off uses. Like Noel, a collegue at work bought an S7 from a local engineering company who had modified the tail stock end of the bed to take a second head stock. One much modified lathe that worked well.

Obviously model engineers have always modified lathes.

JA

 

Edited By JA on 25/02/2023 15:37:59

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If I bought all thnat nlot, I'd probably get a divorce as an add on!

You are gping to be well set up, and able to tackel almost anythingb that will fit in the machine.

Howard.

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