Files,hacksaws etc

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

I see a lot of people say about using files to fettle up.Genuine model engineering beginners question here….why don’t many people use grinders or dremel type power tools instead? I understand that grinders remove a lot of material very quickly but asking as I often see and read about filing material when to me there’s quicker ways of doing the job.Like hacksaws too,seems like hard work to me haha.Maybe I’m getting lazy?

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Andy,

I use my Dremel as well as files or a hacksaw, depends on what I want to do. A surface grinder is on my wish list but so far I have to make without one.

Thor

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Good question. I'd rather use a power tool than do it by hand, but fettling often involves removing small amounts of metal with careful control so that parts fit accurately together. A slip of the hand with a power tool might remove too much, whilst files in different shapes and sizes with different teeth provide a lot of slow but sure control.

Another common fettling job is removing burrs from edges: often quicker to do with a few strokes of a file rather than plug in a power tool.

Skilled filing is a joy to behold. I wish I could do it. Experts seem to remove metal almost effortlessly, producing accurate neat flat surfaces and matching curves with a good finish. What I do with files is much cruder, but I couldn't do without.

I see a milling machine as my best replacement for filing. Grinding is the commonest way of removing metal in industry but the technique isn't as useful in a small workshop, where most jobs are done by sawing, turning, boring, drilling, milling and filing. Nonetheless most of us have a bench grinder for sharpening tools, an angle grinder for cutting, plus a Dremel for fine work.

Just as well I don't need a surface grinder – my workshop is already full!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 12/06/2022 15:06:04

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

There are many jobs for which a file is the only tool suitable.

They are not intended to be used to remove huge amounts of material, but instead to remove that small spot which cannot be reached with the angle grinder, or to dress the final bit of the job.

I am no expert with a file, but I do use them often and could not get by without them.

Do not look down on them as "Old Hat", they have been around for a long time. Get used to using them and you might be surprised just how useful they are .

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Castings are fairly soft and soon clean up, try doing 10 driving wheels on a 9f.

[Anonymous]

I use angle grinders for fettling castings and cleaning up arc welding. If I need precision (tenths) I have surface and cylindrical grinders. They are for removing a few thou at most, not large amounts of material. I don't have a Dremel style tool, no use to me.

I use hacksaws and files a lot. They are often quicker than setting up a machine tool and it is perfectly possible to work to thous with files. I have just finished making some steps for the tenders on my traction engines. Rather than castings they have been made from hot rolled steel. Most of the work has been done on the manual and CNC mills. But all the fillets were done by hand with files and radius gauges. Much quicker than setting up the horizontal mill and far easier to blend the fillets around curves. For slots in one of the steps i needed to make a woodruff style cutter but with longer reach. The cutting tool was made from gauge plate, turned in the lathe to get the correct diameter. Radii on the cutter edges were done with a file. The teeth were done by eye; the bulk of the material cut out with a hacksaw and the cutting edges cleaned up with a file before hardening. The cutter worked fine and took less than an hour to make, including hardening.

I use good quality files, mostly Vallorbe. I have bought some of the Tome Feteira files from ARC, but haven't got around to using them yet.

Andrew

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Many a good casting has been ruined by over enthusiastic use of a grinder.

I use a bit of everything depending on the casting and what shape I'm fettling picking what tool suits the job in hand.

Files are next to useless if you have hard castings and the thin flash around joint lines tends to cool quickly and therefore is at risk of being chilled. But I mostly use files (hand powered) for fettling as you have more control and can blend in steps and flaws better.

Dremel gets used where it's hard to get in with a file and I also tend to run a slow Dremel over the surface with a tear drop shaped stone to get a uniform texture.

Angle grinder is Ok on larger castings or to remove large lumps left by the gates and runners but you could not easily clean up the split lines on say a flywheel with one as you simply can't get in to the areas needed.

Or I just fabricate and cut from solid which negates the need to fettle

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

A selection of files are far more efficient than a Dremel for most purposes.

With some practice, a hacksaw is quick and accurate. A grinder is quick, not particularly accurate, doesn't work well on non-ferrous metal and the cut always needs cleaning up. They're noisy and dirty too, which isn't the case with a saw.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Horses for courses. Dremels and die grinders work well on small intricate complex curves. But unless used with great care and skill they will leave a scalloped surface due to the small diameter of the grinding surface. Files on the other hand come in an endless range of sizes and shapes and can be selected to match the job in hand. Using larger files will give nice flat surfaces or gently flowing curves without the series of divots that a Dremel will often give.

For instance, if you want to put a uniform radius along the edge of a block of steel say 4" long and 1" thick, a 10" flat file will do the job easily with little effort. A grinder will leave all sorts of scallops and flats and rough surfaces. But if you want to clean up the complex casting of a small model engine, then a Dremel will suit better.

Filing is a slower process — as you say, grinders will remove more metal faster. But slow is good if you are trying to achieve a precision finish. You slowly approach the desired shape and can get it just right file stroke by file stroke. Grinders make it too easy to remove too much metal, and you can't put it back on once you have removed it.

And in precision grinding work, such as tool and die making of complex shapes for press tools or plastic moulds, grinding is a roughing process and the final finish is done with rubbing stones and abrasives for final smoothing and polishing, so no quicker or easier than filing really if you want a true precision finish.

The other tool that is very handy for such work is a belt linisher. Removes a lot of metal in a very controlled way without the small divots of a Dremel etc. And a cheap hobby horizontal/vertical bandsaw has pretty much made manual hacksawing obsolete in my workshop.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Don't forget the humble cold chisel. Not sure they would be the go to tool for cutting keyways these days but very handy when used in an intelligent way.

regards Martin

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The other thing is that files are a gentle, peaceful way of shaping metal. Their quiet steady repetitive motion soothes the soul. Grinders irritate it more than just about anything. And start workshop fires.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Let's not forget that a sturdy vice is an essential part of good filing and sawing, which isn't necessarily true for a Dremel.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

An anger grinder is a good way of quickly removing tge majority of the metal from raw material, but being hand held, it will not be a precision result.

One slip and the job is scrap!

Use a file and emery for finishing. A few strokes will remove a small amount of metal.

In the old days, a good fitter could work to within 0.005" with a hammer and cold chisel, before finishing off with a file and then emery.

The men who built the pumping engines for Cornish tin mines did not have the luxury of electricity and angle grinders, but produced some pretty accurate results by hand.

Howard

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