Faulty Materials

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I have just taken delivery of four different sizes of flat steel strip from a well known supplier based in Milton Keynes.

One of them is 1/16 x 1/4 and “very” badly rusted all over on one side and will not clean up as it is pitted on the surface. All have some degree of rust on them.

Two of the imperial 1/16 and 1/8 thickness strips are not flat strip material but have been sheared from 1.5mm and 3mm sheet material so are well undersize on the thickness, they are also twisted and bent from being sheared.

I have contacted the vendor to express my dismay, and he responded by saying I should “feel jolly lucky” as the 1/16 x 1/4 is actually obsolete.
As for the distorted strips he told me to put them in a vice and get the twist out myself.
As for the rust he told me to use a scouring pad and then coat it with oil.

Does anyone else think I have been sent useless scrap or is it just me ?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I think you have been mis-sold at least.
If they adverised imperial sizes and you ordered imperial sizes then they should not subsitute metric without your agreement. Again strip is not sheared off sheet.
If it is the obvious supplier then their terms and coditions are very suspect. For example:

“Descriptive matter illustrations, dimensions and weights issued by the company are for guidance only and are not binding. The company reserves the right to alter patterns and designs without prior notice”

Clearly breaches weights and measures legislation. Mind you that also says you must sell in metric  measurements so 1/4″ should be sold as 6.35mm (1/4″).

I’d be talking to Milton Keynes Trading Standards….

Robert.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

The well known supplier in Milton Keynes, is well known for selling sub standard metals. He also could not care less about the comments of his customers.

Solution is DO NOT trade with this dreadful person. I believe that others on this forum have also been landed with rubbish when dealing with this individual.

 

Andrew.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

If you paid by credit card ask them for a refund. Trading standards should look at them. Publish the name here so others do not get caught out as well.

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Looks like rust is a recurring theme if their Facebook photo’s are anything to go by. !!

I wish I had seen these before I ordered from them, it looks to be a right old dump of a place.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

For on-line and distance purchases you have the legal right, within two weeks, of a return for a full refund. A fault does not need to be claimed, although you might not get back the return postage and this seller doesn’t sound too cooperative. Credit card Section 75 protection only applies over £100.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The Terms & Conditions make interesting reading:

https://www.mkmetals.co.uk/terms-conditions/

The word ‘bargepole’ came to mind.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ from the public record [make of it what you will]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/01401716/filing-history

[Frank GorseParticipant @frankgorse]

Fawlty Materials?

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

I am not surprised by the OP’s experiences. I went there once !

Gerry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

ManKy Metals😮

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Never buy from a farm and read all the reviews all the good ones are local

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I have been lucky with buying bits of metal on ebay, the feedback scores help a lot.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

As you bought it mail order you have an absolute right to send it back for refund, even if its not faulty (which this plainly is) . If you bought it with PayPal they are very good at refunding, otherwise contact your credit card provider. Never pay for anything like this by bank transfer, much more difficult to get a refund

[Martyn CozensParticipant @martyncozens74564]

I purchased some tin plate for boiler cladding for a loco I’m building from the same company in Milton Keynes. The packaging was pathetic (tin plate was sandwiched between two pieces of corogated cardboard nothing to give it any ridgidity) so by the time parcel force had chucked it around in their depots half of the sheet was creased and un-useable. Contacted the company sent photos they said it was parcel Forces problem, I certainly woundn’t use them again.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

I was similarly ‘stitched up’ by this company a few years back and have never used them again.

The lesson here Phil is to always do a search on the forum here before sending money to a company you have not dealt with before!

Mike

 

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

Living fairly close to this company’s premises, I bought my first metal stock from him when I started modelling around 14 years ago.  I was not impressed either with the premises, the proprieter or the metal and have not been back.  Frankly I’m amazed he is still trading.

Jim

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Duffers guide to buying metal:

1. Random scrap.   Advantage, cheap! Disadvantages.  Pot luck what the metal is, and may not be machinable.  Many scrapyards are downright unfriendly; my local yards buy metal but don’t sell it.
2. Selected machinable scrap from a known source.   Advantage, cheap!  Disadvantage.  Location dependent.  None available where I live, and, because metal is costly, many firms these days have an exclusive deal with a recycler.  Worth asking if opportunity presents, but don’t be offended by dusty answers.
3. Off-cuts sold by a small business, perhaps online.   Advantage,  moderately cheap and they post it.  Disadvantage.   Material and storage condition vary wildly.  Buying is always a bit risky, and as we see in this topic, there are examples of bad practice!
4. DIY Stores.  Advantages: available, and can be selected.  Disadvantages: Very limited range. Costly and not particularly machinable, some horrible.  No specifications.
5. Metal sold by a local metal stockist.   Advantages: can be bought to specification, and the metal will be something like it!  Prices moderate, cheaper if you buy by the ton!  Usually properly stored.  No carriage charges.    Disadvantage:  buying small quantities makes it more likely rolling-mill ends or off-cuts will be supplied.  May not be keen to deal with hobbyists, who are often ‘difficult’ and only spend tiny money.
6. Metal sold by an online metal stockist.   Advantages: can be bought to specification.     Usually properly stored.  Often willing to supply small quantities.  Delivery.    Disadvantage: Prices higher, plus carriage charges. Buying small quantities makes it more likely rolling-mill ends or manky off-cuts will be supplied.
7. Professional supplier who issues certificates.   Advantages: metal can be bought to specification, and will be correct.  Disadvantages.  Cost, Minimum Order Quantities apply, and this class of supplier rarely wants to deal with private individuals.
8. Specialist Hobby Supplier.  Advantages: sell the difficult to find metals and stock sizes needed by hobbyists.   Mostly good to deal with because they value their reputation and know all about us!   Disadvantage: cost.

As always, chasing bargains increases the risk…

Dave

[Jim Nic]

On Jim Nic Said:

Living fairly close to this company’s premises, I bought my first metal stock from him when I started modelling around 14 years ago.  I was not impressed either with the premises, the proprieter or the metal and have not been back.  Frankly I’m amazed he is still trading.

Jim

Exactly my experience, used once never again!

Tony

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Their Face-Book entry describes the business as a scrap merchants, “nuff sed” as LBSC might have put it.

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Well I had a bit of a result yesterday.

I originally bought the metal using Paypal, so I put a claim in through them for “Goods not as described”
They have fully refunded me including postage, and I do not have to send the rusty metal back.

Phil

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It looks as if this character is a scrap-dealer who has spotted a potentially more lucrative market for factory-clearance metal, but has no idea how to look after it, or more likely, just does not care.

It’s not the material that is faulty, but the dealer, who “stores” the stuff so badly he spoils it.

Selling sheared material as “strip” suggests he does not really understand materials and metalworking, too, except as something he can sell.

Dave – Point 5. Off-cuts and rolling-mill ends may be all the buyer needs as long as he can extract what he wants from it. It is not a reflection of the metal’s grade and quality.

However, your more general point about many companies’ unwillingness to sell to private individuals does often mean our only choice is the hobby’s own suppliers. They presumably buy in trade quantities, as a factory would, but we pay not only a pro-rate share of the retail metal cost but also for cutting, packaging and carriage.

When I operated a factory materials-store I noticed that the steel stockholder MacReadys’ Ts-&-Cs specifically said it will not sell to private customers. I don’t know how common that is, but some firms might simply refuse us even if not in a formal load of legalese.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Good list Dave, thanks.

8. Specialist Hobby Supplier. Advantages: sell the difficult to find metals and stock sizes needed by hobbyists. Mostly good to deal with because they value their reputation and know all about us! Disadvantage: cost.

How does one find out who these suppliers are? Are they the companies that advertise on Model Engineer plus some others? Or is it a moving target eg a new CEO takes over so standards drop/rise, or a buyout changes the quality.

The only way I can see how to construct such a list is through a combination of personal experience by trying all suppliers, reading forums and word-of-mouth. That could take a long time, and is maybe another barrier to entering the hobby.

Ches

 

 

 

[Phil P]

On Phil P Said:

Well I had a bit of a result yesterday.

I originally bought the metal using Paypal, so I put a claim in through them for “Goods not as described”
They have fully refunded me including postage, and I do not have to send the rusty metal back.

Phil

What a very happy ending to a miserable tale

… spend your refund wisely and tell us where

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Nigel,

The “not sell to private individuals” clause is becoming all too common.

There seem to be 3 main reasons, somtimes a combination:

1/ Can’t be bothered with small orders and potentially needy customers. (Professional customers can be just as bad).

2/ Semi-legal. Don’t want the effort and liabaility of dealing under the various consumer protection legislation like warranty and right of return.

3/ Legal. The products they sell do not meet consumer standards e.g. safety, marking, instructions and are intended for industrial / professional use. In some case it may be illegal to sell a product to the general public e.g. EPP regulations.

In my associated hobby of electronics and test equipment a major company, Keysight (formerly Agilen originally Hewlett Packard) has started to enforcedthis and is refusing sales or support to private individuals. Support is the hard one. You can still buy a multimeter or oscilloscope from Farnell or RS but Keysight won’t calibrate or repair it….

Robert.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Also,

No till or card reader available invoice only.

[Author]

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