Fash?

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Bit of a random one…

I’m helping my son with his GCSE Engineering. He’s been told by one teacher to use the word “Fash” for what I would call a “burr”. Another teacher told him it was wrong, and to use the word “Flash” for the same thing. I’m not so sure that’s right?

I remember my Dad used to use the word “Fash”, IIRC for excess thin plastic on model kits (presumably he meant “Flash&rdquo. He was a very good intuitive engineer, so I wonder if “Fash” is indeed an established term for a burr or other thin piece of excess material? Can it be used for I.M., Casting and general engineering, or…what?

Thoughts? Thanks.

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Well I agree with you. It is so easy for people to be led astray by one influential person who has got mixed up. miss-informed, or badly taught themselves. Bad information on the internet can compound the problem as for example the many adverts for 'live centres' that are really 'revolving centres'.

However perhaps the internet can help here -Tell the teacher to Google 'casting flash'.

And of course 'burr' gets used as shorthand for 'cutting burr' even though a regular burr is what cuts in a cabinet scraper.

Edited By Bazyle on 30/03/2023 21:00:17

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I've always used the term "flash" to apply to those thin bits of metal or plastic that squeeze out between the two halves of a casting mould and stick to the casting itself along the parting line. Definately not a burr which is a result of a failure to get a clean cut, usually caused by a very thin piece of the job bending out of the way rather than being cut by the tool.

I've only ever heard "fash" being used by a worried Scots person.

Rod

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

It’s strange that “Fash” was used by both the teacher (2023) and my Dad (197x), both for engineering type things.

I always understood “Flash” only applied to processes that used a split mould.

[Anonymous]

My OED gives one meaning of "fash" as:

"A rough edge or ridge left on nails, cast bullets, etc"

It gives a second meaning as:

"A fringe; anything resembling a fringe".

 

It defines "burr" as:

A rough ridge or edge left on metal or other substance after cutting, punching, etc.; e.g. the roughness produced on a copper-plate by the graver; the rough neck left on a bullet in casting; the ridge produced on paper, etc., by puncture.

Edited By Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 30/03/2023 21:28:31

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

+1 on everything that Roderick said.

"Dinnae fash yersel"

I lost faith in teachers when one told us that the crankshaft bearings in a Hillman Imp engine were made of chrome-vanadium.

Rob

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I read right through the 'fash' thinking it was a simple typo for 'flash'. I notice the spellcheck is flagging fash.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 30/03/2023 21:24:33:

My OED gives one meaning of "fash" as:

"A rough edge or ridge left on nails, cast bullets, etc"

It gives a second meaning as:

"A fringe; anything resembling a fringe".

Can't argue with that but not, I think, in common usage globally. Perhaps retained locally as a dialect term and, as such, to be treasured. I can't help thinking that if used in an exam answer it would be marked down as a spelling mistake

Rod

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Here's another one for you:

is your granite surface-plate, (or come to that, kitchen work-top) should you have one, really granite?

Assuming it is genuine stone, not some sort of composite material made to resemble that.

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 30/03/2023 21:56:52:

Posted by Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 30/03/2023 21:24:33:

My OED gives one meaning of "fash" as:

"A rough edge or ridge left on nails, cast bullets, etc"

It gives a second meaning as:

"A fringe; anything resembling a fringe".

I can't help thinking that if used in an exam answer it would be marked down as a spelling mistake

Rod

I think you would be shocked at the incorrect answers which are marked as correct, and vice-versa. Also some of the dodgy things…

For example, in my experience, the hole centre distance of a car engine’s connecting rod doesn’t equal the stroke length. Of course, I’m mistaken.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

One of #2 son's practice maths GCSE exam papers gave one equation with 2 unknowns, and he was meant to solve it. The maths teacher would not have it that there were an infinite number of solutions, because 'the exam board wouldn't have got it wrong'. I could give other examples of silly exam questions, but I've bored you enough already.

 

And we always called rough edges from cutting 'rags', but I have seen drawings with 'frase all edges'. 

Edited By duncan webster on 30/03/2023 23:59:49

Edited By duncan webster on 31/03/2023 00:01:54

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Posted by duncan webster on 30/03/2023 23:58:50:

One of #2 son's practice maths GCSE exam papers gave one equation with 2 unknowns, and he was meant to solve it. The maths teacher would not have it that there were an infinite number of solutions, because 'the exam board wouldn't have got it wrong'. I could give other examples of silly exam questions, but I've bored you enough already.

And we always called rough edges from cutting 'rags', but I have seen drawings with 'frase all edges'.

Edited By duncan webster on 30/03/2023 23:59:49

Edited By duncan webster on 31/03/2023 00:01:54

The big dilemma during his engineering revision was sometimes whether to accept what was written in his exam revision notes, or to go with the correct answer.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/03/2023 22:29:13:

Here's another one for you:

is your granite surface-plate, (or come to that, kitchen work-top) should you have one, really granite?

Assuming it is genuine stone, not some sort of composite material made to resemble that.

.

Given the petrology of natural granite [i.e. a sort of composite material]

… that might reasonably be seen as a trick question.

MichaelG.

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

The use of the words "Flash", "Fash", "Burrs" in one pragraph in this case moulding indicates to me 3 seperate meanings of the 3 words.

Example:
" Such fash burrs, which acts as a lever during forming, will further increase the flash burr, resulting in local depression of the mold, forming a vicious cycle of further increasing the fash burrs. "

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I only ever heard it called flash. Below shows what my universal dictionary definition of the word fash is.

Regards Nick.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I suggest that the term ‘Fash’ simply comes from the fact that an as-yet-unfinished thing is in the process of being fashioned.

Look at the etymology of the word fashion.

MichaelG.

[DellParticipant @dell]

If it was me then I would call it a burr because everyone knows what a burr is so I can’t see the examiner marking down for that .

Dell

[Tim HammondParticipant @timhammond72264]

Just to muddy the water a little bit more, in the Black Country a burr thrown up by a machining process was always known as "fraze".

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by duncan webster on 30/03/2023 23:58:50:

One of #2 son's practice maths GCSE exam papers gave one equation with 2 unknowns, and he was meant to solve it. The maths teacher would not have it that there were an infinite number of solutions, because 'the exam board wouldn't have got it wrong'. I could give other examples of silly exam questions, but I've bored you enough already.

And we always called rough edges from cutting 'rags', but I have seen drawings with 'frase all edges'.

Edited By duncan webster on 30/03/2023 23:59:49

Edited By duncan webster on 31/03/2023 00:01:54

I have a friend who for years worked for one of the examination boards assessing the quality of the marking and adjudicating on disputes. He told me of one student when presented with a right angled triangle with two side lengths given and the other labelled x with the question find x, had drawn an arrow pointing to x with the words ‘here it is’. They awarded the marks to the student on the basis that he had answered the question which was badly written. I should have said find the value of x.

As to burr, flash and fash, these are descriptive terms and probably have been established by general use very likely with local variants although I suspect fash is a little odd. As mentioned it’s Scot’s dialect for fuss although I guess burrs can cause a lot of fuss. Not something I would worry about greatly. It’s not as if it’s the same as defining a tangent where tangent has a very specific meaning. Once the casting is fettled the flash is gone and I suspect there are a few more variations on fettled too.

regards Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Fash is new to me, and it's not in any of my dictionaries. But Chris Mate's example shows it exists alongside burr and flash.

Could Dr_GMJN's son ask his teacher were he got the word from? Might be like 'Saggar Makers Bottom Knocker' – a term from a specific trade, correct, but not widely used. Moulding has become much more common in industry since plastics took off, so maybe it comes from that world, and we don't have any plastic moulders on the forum?

Dave

[egaParticipant @ega]

OED has the old meaning of "A rough edge or ridge left on nails, cast bullets, etc. "

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 30/03/2023 21:26:07:

"Dinnae fash yersel"

My southern English mother was bemused to be told to "Dinnae fash yerself hinny" on one of her first visits to the prospective parents in law based in the far north east of England, some 20 miles from the border and had to ask Dad for a translation.

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

FASH

This reminded me of the Scottish radio wind ups. Hector Brocklebank of HB Fash – Google it

Martin

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Thanks guys,

I couldn't find much online, but if's in the OED with a description that matches what I was talking about, then as far as I'm concerned "Fash" is a valid term to use for a rough edge. And "Flash" is reserved for excess material outside a mould or die.

So the first teacher (and my Dad) were right, the second teacher was wrong.

Sorted!

[Author]

Posts