Fake Mitutoyo Digital Callipers on eBay

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by DMB on 27/03/2015 22:47:29:

What I would like to know is how Paypal get away with that when your CR or DR card issuer cannot?
I try to avoid using Paypal whenever possible

They are not a Bank would you believe. Or so they claim. Despite the billions they have on deposit.

They are a law unto themselves and it's about time someone grasped the nettle and asked them just what it is they think they are playing at.

graham.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

When is a fake not a fake?

Mitutoyo have given up trying to police fakes as one assumes there are so many. Other people report it's hard to tell the difference in look and use between Mitutoyo and a fake. Fake only in name then?

Sounds like it's time for Mitutoyo to review their product, drop unnecessary processes and finishes and drop their prices. Unless they wish to have a Rolls Royce on their hands. Or do a Black and Decker: They used to have hand tools in Grey plastic (Amateur) which were cheaper than those in Green plastic (Professional). However they were both the same underneath. Naughty.

Personally I always preferred Jaguar but have to admit I never had a Rolls Royce and I guess it will be the same when it comes to veniers etc.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It would seem PayPal are now offering £200 Credit facilities to draw on when purchasing, I deleted the email giving details.

Clive

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Oompa Lumpa on 28/03/2015 00:45:19:

They are not a Bank would you believe. Or so they claim. Despite the billions they have on deposit.

They are a law unto themselves and it's about time someone grasped the nettle and asked them just what it is they think they are playing at.

graham.

They're playing at making a profit by whatever means they can get away with.. sadly a model most businesses follow now and multinationals can hide under foreign legislation and finanacial rules and tangle things up in courts.

About the only way to resolve that would be all purchases going through a government portal and being taxed/protected with a need for vendor to try and make a reclaim… but then gov would cock-up and lose millions on another faulty database project and be too scared of upsetting/losing business…

Most dramatic is how cheap postage can be from china to here.. but how expensive it is in reverse. Especially when international agreements mean postal services have to deliver in the country of destination at no further charge or a cut of the original fee. It's why any direct sales from china can beat any outgoing sales from the UK.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Just an observation, if you buy a fake off Ebay why bother to send it back? Just get your money back using the 'not as described' route and keep the maybe usable tool?

Tony

[Robert Van StaalduinenParticipant @robertvanstaalduinen84084]

Posted by Jesse Hancock 1 on 28/03/2015 09:30:14:

When is a fake not a fake?

Mitutoyo have given up trying to police fakes as one assumes there are so many. Other people report it's hard to tell the difference in look and use between Mitutoyo and a fake. Fake only in name then?

Hang on Jesse,

There is a clear difference between look and feel of the real vs fake. I compared the fakes to my boss' new caliper of the same model 500-196-20, and genuine is hands down better. The reputation they have is dependable accuracy (provided they are not abused) and this is what they have earned. Where many branded companies aim to meet DIN and ANSI standards, Mitutoyo sought to exceed them.

Dealing with fakes is just something that has to be decided on when you are on top of your game. Simple things like zippers is another area of high counterfeits, look down at your pants zip and chances are its a a YKK brand, but is it a real or a fake? From my wife who is in QC of a department store, the YKK zip is a desirable standard to demand from clothing companies and they have a BIG folder on how to identify fakes during pre production samples, and they try to pass them off all the time…

The fakes work, they do the job just fine, but for how long before sub standard materials and processes cause them to fail?

I will still gladly use these calipers, I have mics to check critical measurments, but I wouldnt recommend others buy the fakes and use them for important stuff.

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

In response to Tony's observation, I can only reiterate that in my case Paypal would not give me a refund until the fake item had been returned to the vendor. After it had been returned they would then only refund the purchase cost, not the return postage.

I do not give in easily in these kind of disputes, but after many emails and exchanges with Ebay I finally decided life is too short to waste any more time over a few pounds.

Mike

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Basically it's greed.

If you want a genuine Mitutoyo them buy one from a reputable dealer.

If it's cheap, on Ebay chance are it's fake so stop whinging about being ripped off, Ebays policies and Paypal.

They are not to blame.

It's only your decision that's to blame.

[Robert Van StaalduinenParticipant @robertvanstaalduinen84084]

I agree John, If you hunt for a bargain, be prepared to take a risk and dont cry if you got ripped. Why push for a refund and then keep the product?

I use AliExpress website all the time and get direct from china, from DROs, metric reamers and dovetail cutters, to bluetooth speakers and I have not had a problem with anything yet. I did however have one linear scale out of 5 not function correctly and a replacement was sent under warranty. I do spend a long time finding suppliers with good feedback remarks.

The reason I shop in China is because New Zealand has a small economy and most tooling is rather overpriced. I look and buy local all the time, but certain things are much cheaper from overseas. 2xDRO's for my lathe and mill would have cost NZ$2400 locally and I paid $800 landed on my doorstep…

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

My Dad bought an Omega watch ,cheap, off a bloke in the pub. It was of course a fake. I inherited the watch and it is still going strong and accurate after 20 years. What's to complain about?

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Robert Van,

If there's a clear difference then why have I read else where that people have a job telling the difference at sight and in use?

One of my earlier guises was as a quality engineer and what I found was that the human factor was the greatest deviation in any cap study. Training and familiarity with the tool are the key to consistant output when using hand tools be they verniers, spanners, files or anything else.

Personally price and utility win the day with my choices but if you wish to buy Mitutoyo thats your affair and I won't knock it.

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

As is sometimes the case, this thread has gone off in a direction of its own.

When I started it, as anyone who reads my original posting will see, my intention was simply to warn the unsuspecting that a fake product was being passed off as the genuine article on Ebay, and to offer some advice on spotting the fakes. I thought I was being helpful, and certainly not "whinging".

I particularly wanted a Mitutoyo product because I appreciated the functionality and quality. Yes, I was looking to buy at a good price, but I think it's offensive to call this greed. Don't we all shop around, particularly when making a significant purchase? The description of the item gave every reassurance that the item was genuine, and the £50 price was not implausibly cheap. As it happens, after my bad experience I bought a genuine item from a UK source for a similar price.

Mike

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

I cannot understand why anyone would knowingly collude with criminals to defraud a name brand by deliberately purchasing counterfeit products.

If one wishes to economise, it is easy enough to find a wide range of cheap Chinese sourced products that do not include fraud as part of their marketing plan.

Besides which there is a far more sinister side to counterfeiting, one that extends well beyond petty fraud. For example fake transistors that from the outside appear to be the real thing. Once physically cut open, they reveal the inferior quality that will only become apparent when a critical piece of equipment fails prematurely in service

Counterfeiting will continue while enough people refuse to see it for the crime that it is, and as a result everyone suffers.

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by Andrew Moyes 1 on 27/03/2015 12:20:27:

When I lived in Hong Kong, I repaired my washing machine with a new belt which I thought was a reputable make. When it shredded itself with just 6 months of use, I looked more closely and found it was a Mitsuboshi. Crafty.

Andrew M

Andrew..

I am car mechanic and know these Mitsuboshi belts are common in the cars to drive the alternator, water pump etc..

Mitsuboshi is a trade mark that produces drive belts. Also not a fake..

http://www.mitsuboshi.co.jp/english/

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Mike Crossfield on 28/03/2015 12:23:49:

As is sometimes the case, this thread has gone off in a direction of its own.

When I started it, as anyone who reads my original posting will see, my intention was simply to warn the unsuspecting that a fake product was being passed off as the genuine article on Ebay, and to offer some advice on spotting the fakes. I thought I was being helpful, and certainly not "whinging".

I particularly wanted a Mitutoyo product because I appreciated the functionality and quality. Yes, I was looking to buy at a good price, but I think it's offensive to call this greed. Don't we all shop around, particularly when making a significant purchase? The description of the item gave every reassurance that the item was genuine, and the £50 price was not implausibly cheap. As it happens, after my bad experience I bought a genuine item from a UK source for a similar price.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I certainly don't think you are being greedy, the more intelligent fakers offer their goods often near the price of the genuine article so the buyer thinks he is just getting a 'good deal'.

Tony

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Some time ago people in England would seek out their favourite cigarette from the local shops.

It's an odd concept in that broken into it's basic constituents one cigarette was more or less exactly the same as the next. Given this knowledge people were still willing to pay twice or three times the amount for a different brand just because they felt some sort of affliation with their particular brand.

When I was a teen I bought Ladybird Jeans because in all honesty Levi's never fitted me as well and were easily half the price of Levi's. Were they as good… Darn right they were. In my veiw they wore longer and better. Shame was that due to the fashion conscious people buying Levi's, Ladybird (a British company) went to the wall or at least the brand did. Same with Stukeys their ordinary cotton shirts were every bit as good as Ben Sherman but Shermans sold more than Stuckeys. The same can be said for their jeans and at fifteen bob a pair as against seven quid for a pair of Levi's to me there was no comparison. I could fall off my A10 with gay abandon and not be too concerned if I managed to tear a hole in my jeans.

As for Mitutoyo I still have one 6" and one 8" vernier which I hardly ever use because they are pre electronic. With an electronic readout I don't have to strain my eyes or worry as to wether I missed a division. Reading an electronic device takes out a lot of guess work and I assume that goes for most of us on here.

Now if you're worried about your (brand) of mitutoyo not reading correctly then you can have them caliberated as there is usually one or two little companies around which will caliberate all your measuring equipment. They will surely tell you when your micrometer or vernier is out of wack.

It might even disuade the young ones using a micrometer as a small G clamp! Yep I caught my more adventurous lad doing just that and using a vernier for undoing a large slotted screw cap because you (I) haven't got a big enough flat bladed screw driver dad and I can't find the three foot steel rule!

PS: As a final observation two minutes ago I was holding a vernier in my hand which was a gift from Model Engineer just because I ordered a years supply of the magazine. I have tested this unbranded vernier against my branded ones and guess what there is no difference on the read out.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 29/03/2015 12:55:16

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

As an addition to the "Ladybird" brand, it never ceases to amaze why some pay well over the odds for "Designer" branded clothing with the manufacturers name splashed over the front in 400 point for the "Privilege" of giving them free advertising?

Regards Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Ladybird didn't go to the wall until 2008 – part of the Kingfisher group with Woollies. It was rescued by the people who own Littlewoods so you can only get it through catalogues etc.

> I have tested this unbranded vernier against my branded ones and guess what there is no difference on the read out.

They more or less all work, differences are how fast they use batteries, number of extra functions, and things like how they respond to changing temperature (I have one cheapy that you could use as a thermometer, and another cheapy that is rock solid).

Neil

[Author]

Posts