EW Lathe Oiling Question

[merlotParticipant @merlot]

I checked the play after I assembled it and was surprised to find it had 1.5 thou play measured as above. The first thing I turned was some 304 Stainless and it actually did alright.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Ian –

Your photo of the vertical-slide in use: Is the additional plate cut out so the slide nests in it? That would pretty much as I have made though mine is two separate blocks.

 

.

Merlot –

Tool-clamping: The “screw next to the nut” on the tool-clamp is the support and fulcrum for the clamp-plate. This type of tool-post was very common at one time, even on large industrial lathes.

When set correctly the plate should be level or tilted very slightly down towards the tool. If it tilts the other way or is tilted too much the tool could slip out – spoiling your day, the work and possibly the lathe. A piece of card, cork or synthetic rubber betwixt clamp and tool will improve the grip without needing excessive strain. Not plastic – that can slip.

There is, or ought be, a light spring below the clamp plate to help hold the plate up when released. Not essential but it makes using the clamp less fiddly.

I do have a rather crude, commercially-made QCTP sold for small lathes, and it will fit the EW but not very happily. Really, a 4-way tool-post may be better – not difficult to make from 3 square pieces of plate held together with countersink screws, with suitable screws for clamping each tool – or as others have suggested make a custom QCTP to take simple block-type bit-holders. A simple 4-way post has no angular repeatability, but it would not be difficult to devise a simple indexable one without costing precious vertical space for the tools.

At simplest: fit small, strip-steel fences to the outer side and front face of each block to locate repeatably against the flanks of the slide.

 

Tool types: Don’t worry about carbide insert tooling for this lathe. They will work on a small, low-speed lathe like the EW, and I sometimes use them on my larger lathes; but you can obtain very good results indeed with HSS tooling on any conventional lathe. It’s what these older machines were designed to take, after all, or even plain high-carbon steel. The secret is in good tool-sharpening and setting as much as in speeds and feeds. The sintered-carbide tips do work at “low” speed but are really for high-speed work, designed for commercial work-rates – where their manufacturers quote their expected lives in tens of minutes!

 

Four-jaw Chuck: I assume conventional form? In that case setting it so the correct part of the work is on centre is fundamentally the same as on any lathe.

Not “black art” but entailing a DTI for setting cylindrical stock concentrically, and tools like sticky-pins, wigglers etc. for irregular work. Or just pointing the tailstock centre at the marked centre or nestled in a pre-drilled hole, or using the tip of the tool to touch off the edge(s) of the work.

A 4-jaw chuck allows facing and cylindrical-turning polygonal material, but at cost of powerful hammer-blows through the work to the lathe. Rather unkind to a light machine like the EW; the first effect being one very tightly jammed-on chuck. It is better at the very least to file chamfers on the edges to give the tool some lead-in until it has started to round the work appreciably. (I do something similar for my manual shaper.) And take very gentle cuts, of course.

.

That 3-jaw chuck you have looks like the sort used on Peatol and similar lathes, and should grip properly cylindrical work adequately if in good condition.  It’s still a scroll mechanism at heart, like any self-centering chuck. However, a key-operated chuck has a stronger grip and removes a potential source of strain from the lathe in tightening and releasing it. Note when you change between internal and external jaws to put them in their correct (numbered) slots.

NB: never use a good self-centering 3- or 4-jaw chuck for gripping rough bar. Doing so puts very unfair strains on it and risks the metal working loose in the chuck. Use the 4-jaw independent-jaw chuck instead.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hi Merlot,

We’ve been looking after one of our grandchildren today – so I’ve just about had it I’m afraid.  🙂

However, here are a couple of (posed) shots I’ve just taken of my usual EW set-up.

I normally use 3/16th HSS tools and mount them in simple blocks (as proposed by Dr Rose in ME many years ago). Once the tool is set for height, you can swap them in and out without any faffing around with packing etc. They are as quick as using an QCTH, easier to make and have some other advantages on a small lathe. I’ve evolved my set-up over time, starting off with just the blocks themselves and then adding the other ‘components’ shown below…

From memory (the top of) the EW top-slide is 1/2″ below the centre line, so with 3/16th tools, you need the bottom of the slot to be (slightly under) 5/16th. In practice, my blocks are reversable, in that they can also be used the other way up, to mount correctly on my boring table fitting. Not something you need to worry about though.

I do have a small (e.g budget) QCTH but on a small lathe like the EW there are a number of problems with them, as they can add another inch of ‘stick-out’. This causes problems not only with rigidity (which is not that great on a small lathe anyway) but also limit the amount of cross-slide travel.  You can easily over-wind the EW cross slide out too far trying to cut larger diameters if you are not careful. I’ve also had issues with not being able to get the tail stock near enough to the chuck with that extra inch on the front of the cross-slide (to use a live centre for instance).

If you would like to read Dr Roses ME articles, then PM me with your email and i’ll send you scans.

With respect to setting gib-strips, for both the cross & top slide, I’d suggest you unscrew/remove the lead-screws and set the gibs by sliding the top/cross slide too and fro as you do it. You want them slighly stiff but not too much so (with no really tight spots). Make sure the gibs are well seated and the ways cleaned & oiled before you do it.

Hope this helps. The EW is a really great little lathe. I’ve had mine for quite a while now and use it regularly. Wouldn’t want be without it.

Regards,

 

IanT

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Merlot,

The screw is used to accommodate differing sizes of tool bit and ensure a proper balanced cantilevered force is applied to the tool. Looking at your picture, try to imaging if that screw was not present, how ineffective the clamping pressure on the tool would be (and if it could be secured at all).

With this type of clamp, what I do is approximately set the height of the underside of clamp to rest on the  tool bit so it is roughly parallel with with the surface of the top slide and finger tighten the nut. Then turn the screw a little so that it slightly lifts the clamp plate on the screw side and exerts a little more pressure on the tool bit. DONT  overdo this bit of the procedure because this is how you crack the top slide under a high point load – 1/4 to 1/2 turn will do.

Then finally tighten up the nut to securely hold the tool.

I would advise you take a good look at the base of the screw, making sure it is not rounded or pointed and also consider using a decent sized piece of  1/8 flat m/s to spread the load of the screw and so avoid the disaster that I caused on mine (shamefully turns to corner with dunces hat on).

Gibs on this machine never feel like they are set properly. To do the best you can, No. 1, take them all apart and give a good clean. Check to see that the sliding surfaces are straight and not bent, galled or burred. If so clean up and lap as best you can.

Check to see if there any reference dimples that perfectly line up with the gib screws, and what manner of screw they are (pointed ones that sit cleanly in a neat little dimple would be a good start).  If there is just a mass of scarring and random pits on the part of the gib that the screws bear on, blue up and try to establish a true location point using new gib screws and drill a clean location dimple.

Once everything is back in position, for the saddle, remove the apron set the centre gib screw with saddle in mid bed so you can freely slide the saddle up and down the lathe bed with modest pressure. If you find it is much looser at the headstock end of the bed then at the tailstock, that will be due to wear on close to the chuck. Not much you can do about it but just adjust the gibs according to the part of the bed that is being used.

Assuming you get a reasonably smooth action with centre gib screw set, lock it if you have a locknut. Then tighten the other 2 gib screws to take out any rocking motion of the saddle. You should be able to move the saddle by hand but find it will not lift or twist over its usual range of movement(subject to what degree of differential wear there is on the lathe bed). Replace apron and curse the fact that you only have a fixed nut!

Use a similar sort of procedure on the cross and top slide by undoing the screws that hold the end plates in the slides and winding out the leadscrew so you can check slide movement by hand. Aim to get to get free movement without any lift if the slide by setting one gib screw then remove any rock n roll with the other gib screws while keeping smooth movement over full range (or as much as is acceptable to you). It is a bit of a faff but this way will reveal any issues with the movement of the slides when free of the influence of the leadscrews.

If it is all to daunting, just use the same process leaving all leadscrews connected, although more difficult to feel motion accurately. The aim id to arrive at a situation where there is minimum play and rock over the range of movement, but you can twirl the leadscrews comfortably.  Don’t be disappointed  if there are loose and tight spots – it will depend on the mileage your particular example has done.

On this class of machine it is all a bit of a compromise and as long as excess play is minimised and you can minimise chatter, that is about as good as it gets. I find it is not unusual to have to adjust gibs mid job, because my EW is slightly worn about 3-4 inches from the headstock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

ha ,

beaten to it by  IanT.

I like the Rose blocks, my tools have bits of miscellaneous material stuck to the bottom to attempt to get them on centre. The closest I can offer as anything respectable is the GHT eccentric boring bar holder.

Use of bearing block and elephants foot on screw noted. I bet IanT never cracked a top slide!

[IanTParticipant @iant]

For anyone interested, here is another view of one of my tool blocks in use on my EW – as seen from the tailstock

You can see that the tool block is fully supported by the top-slide and that it can reach the edge of the (55mm diameter) brass part being machined. With my QCTH, it would hang out further to the right by over an inch.  More importantly, I’d have real problems trying to wind the cross-slide much further back without running out of V-guide for it to hang on to. Small machines need different approaches to these problems…

As an aside, I’m machining a new register on this backplate here because the old one was too small.  I originally started just cutting one into the cast iron again but it was a really dirty job and I went a few thou too far whilst trying for a fit (I said some bad words). The 60mm brass offcut was trepanned from another job, so ideal for the work (I never throw anything non-ferrous away). I superglued it to the backplate, clamped, drilled & tapped for 4BA countersunk screws. I machined the plate down to 55mm and got it bang on second time around – a tight sliding fit. I mention this because I think there were a couple of advantages to doing this. First of course, brass isn’t quite as messy as cast iron and it’s easy to take very light/small finishing cuts with a sharp tool. But because the plate was ‘raised’ (by the old register which I left in place) there was no need to undercut the base of the register, which means the chuck seated perfectly against the backplate when bolted up. The plate is purely an alighment device, it doesn’t take any load in use.

So although this was one of my (not uncommon) screw-ups, I might do it this way again if I needed to, certainly if I was re-cycling an old backplate that was already a bit thin. My ER32 chuck fitted this way now has a run-out of 0.006mm (less than a quarter thou) if my metrology is correct. Unfortunately, I doubt this will be repeated with actual work held in a collet as my collets were not very expensive (e.g they were really cheap) although I’ve not tested them in it yet and I may have just got lucky with the chuck. I will certainly look more closely at my other ER chucks now and maybe try this approach if it seems worthwhile.

Mileage may vary for others doing this of course but I’m feeling quite pleased with it.

Regards,

 

IanT

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I like those tool-holders, Ian.

And that thrust-pad for the screw.

If I may so though, I think the toolpost stud and nut would prefer to be married rather than just engaged! They are hanging on almost literally by a thread, well, probably two. I would make the top of the tool block and that washer a bit thinner so the nut is used to its full depth.

A trick I use sometimes when working out on the edge of a large diameter – on any lathe – is to mount a left-hand tool cross-ways on the outer area of the top-slide, so the cross-slide is well inside its travel even when the tool is far out from the centre.

.

I see your lathe still has its bent locking-handle for the saddle clamp. Mine broke, and examining it, it seems to be aluminium! It might of course have been a replacement made by the previous owner, but as I now have some proper bar-bending tools I’ve no excuse for not making a new one from mild steel!

.

I assessed the wear on my EW using a short length of precision-ground steel. This suggested a replacement spindle 0.001 – 0.002″ oversize might be enough to put it back into operation: I’d need make some plug-gauges to try that. A lot of work to make it and turning anything parallel to that limit over more than an inch length on my Myford lathe is difficult or impossible. The pulley and back-gear pinion may need lapping out to suit, as they are not very worn. Making a new spindle is still a possibility though. As far as I can tell the original is plain mild-steel.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

In my case the blocks can’t be too much shallower Nigel, as I also use them on a fitting that goes on my boring table. In that case I invert them, as I need the tool to be higher in the block. Anyone just using them on the top-slide could of course do so.

I have a (very) long list of ‘TUITs’ – including making a clamp-lever and thin(ner) nut. I have rather nice brass lever (rescued from an old drill press) that needs boring out and a sleeve silver soldered in, for threading to suit the clamp post. A new washer will be very simple to do but it’s strange how the simple things often stay on the “must do that” list for so long.  🙁

My saddle locking handle is steel. I’ve thought about replacing it with some form of knob but in practice I can operate it very easily by just reaching over the cross-slide – easier than twiddling a knob, although it does look a bit crude.

Last time I had my spindle out, it looked pretty good and the bearing surfaces seemed OK too. I’ve never adjusted my bearings. As long as you keep them lubricated, I don’t think there should be any issues with a steel shaft running in cast-iron bearings – they are not similar metals from that point of view. If you do re-make your spindle, I would certainly lap the spindle before fitting it (I’m a big fan of lapping for this kind of job) to minimise any future wear.

Regards,

 

IanT

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Not knowing the EW, this may be impractical.

But, rather than a QCTP, it might be possible to make a 4 way toolpost. (I made one for a 5″ Raglan, which until then only gave a choice of a fixed 4 way or a Top Slide which could be angled.  The rather skinny 4 way on the Top Slide then allowed short tapers to be cut, such as trimming up a soft centre)

The post could be made from three laminations, rather than milled from the solid, although this will need at least a couple of csk Allen screws to clamp the three layers together. (I made a 4 way rear toolpost for my much newer lathe, using four laminations. They were clamped togeter with three Allen screws, the fourth position being used for a long, three piece, location dowel) As an indication of the scale, the tool clamp scrrews were M10, the lathe being basically Metric!

If you fancy having a go at something like this, PM me with an E mail address, and I’ll send copies of the drawings, and a photo or two.  (The drawings will be the neat ones produced by the MEW Graphics folk for the article, from my rather poor pencil drawings, )  The dimensions will need to be reduced to suit your EW, but might give you some ideas.

Howard

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Bought an EW lathe from a dealer way back in 1959 when I was serving my apprenticeship,the spindle was scored where it ran through the cast ron bearings,though not too badly,my employer at the time said this was a common fault when there is poor lubrication the,the cast iron remainds ok and the steel shaft suffers,so on his advice I used sae thirty motor oil ( CASTROL XL) always best to over oil,excess oil is better than no oil,just give it a squirt fom the oil can As a small lathe it was ok,well made,and came with the lay shaft,back gear and screw cutting gears,At the time I was doing the turning part of my training mainly on Boxford and plain lathes,you do have to be aware of the limitation of small lathes.I found that the permantly engaged lead screw nut was a right pain in the backside,It was only in recent years long after I sold the EW that I came across a conversion to make the leadscrew nut split which would have made a vast improvement.Now going back to lubrication, iron and steel bearings were once fairly common, a lot of open crank stationary oil engines had the side shaft running at half crank speed, many had just oil holes others had brass lubricators or pockets cast in the bearing ,the oil feed being a wick.after having restored a number of these engines none have had scored side shafts,though many of these were only running at around 200/250 rpm perhaps the EW lathes with scored spindles were run at high speed and in frequent lubrication, the advantage of wick feed is that syphon action of the wick tends to filter any dirt out of the oil before it reaches the spindle,and the supply is constant,plain oiler holes can feed dirt along with oil into the bearing and must be kept clean.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Howard – That was one of my suggestions too, a four-way tool-post; though mine has no indexing ability as it is.

I have pondered how to add that feature, and decided the easiest is a simple base-plate that sits on the slide, with fences below to locate it to the slide, and fences above in which the tool-post nests: just slacken the nut on top, lift and turn it to the next position. Or a dowel locating in 4 holes.

All made and fitted without modifying the lathe itself.

Really though restoring the spindle and journals is the priority for mine, with two rather extreme possibilities among others. The spindle is slightly worn but testing with a piece of ground steel bar suggests the castings have worn more than the shaft, and unevenly; the rear one the worse.

One possibility is to have it plated and ground – no reply yet to my enquiry.

The other is to make a new spindle…. If I can turn that long length parallel, and drill a hole axially right through it.

As far as I know the spindle is mild-steel, not some high-tensile alloy, and not hardened.

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Thicker oil is WTG with this bearing, especially if wear is detectable.

Nigel Mc….permanently engaged lead screw nut was a right pain in the backside,

Absolutely, the fixed nut is the least endearing feature of this lathe. Many’s the time after hours blistering my fingers twirling the leadscrew I resolved to do something but failed to be able to devise a reliable solution.  Do you remember where you saw the split nut conversion? Or if anyone has some info on a simple but reliable mod for this problem.

I get 4 way holders, but have never understood the great benefit of indexing. On the Myford I deliberately removed the indexing feature, in my view it was not that accurate and usually more of a hinderance than a help.

Anything seems possible by way of remediation of worn shafts, rather suspect the cost would be on the ‘industrial’ side of expensive. You could contact those advertising the service and see if you could get a straight/reliable  answer. You might want to check for ovality / belling in the two headstock castings before doing too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Nigel,

My 4 way rear post was made up of laminatioms. They are secured together (before milling the sides) by three csk Allen screws passing from the lowest into tappings in the topmost one.  The fourth position is used for a locating dowel. 5/16″ Knurled knob, on a piece of 1/8″  which is tapped into a piece of 1/4″ silver steel that sits in a reamed hole in the lowest lamination. It sits on another base lamination on the cross slide, which locates against the rear of the Cross Slide with two dowels, it has four reamed holes as location for the toolpost dowels.

A smaller but similar method was used when I made the four way front toolpost for the Cross Slide on a friend’s 5″ Raglan. (This machine normally gives the choice of a four way, which does not rotate, or a Top Slide which does, but only carries one tool. Hence the the rather skinny 4 way made for the Top Slide, to allow short tapers to be turned)

The dowel provides a sure location for each position of the four way, resisting the forces trying to move the toolpost.

When I had the ML7, the ratchet wheel beneath, allowed the 4 way toolpost to be located in 8 postions, as I recall, so that chamfering was easier.

A while ago, MEW carried an article on making the 4 way rear toolpost.  There is no reason why another could not be made, in the same way, but to different dimensions, for use as  front toolpost.

Howard

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Martin –

The plating and grinding company was one suggested by a contributor on here. You’re probably right about price even if they’d be willing to take it on.

I am examining the lathe’s state, slowly, between other tasks like servicing my Myford lathe and such hobbies as eating.

The two headstocks are badly worn, the rear one rather irregularly and roughly conical. I tested it this evening with a short bar turned to about 0.750″ dia for a couple of inches, then 0.753″ dia for a further inch to a slight shoulder.

I could make the split clamp hold that, but I don’t want to risk tightening them more than I have to. I put the bar through to a small should on it, and fitted the pulley to the 3/4″ section. This allowed me to try rotating it, and it felt “lumpy” so might itself be very slightly lobed or oval.

I obtained similar results with the chuck end headstock though that is in better condition.

My thoughts now are to make a new spindle 0.003 – 0.005″ over-size, and bore or lap the castings, pulley and back-gear pinion to suit; with due care not to lose the alignment.

I have wondered, and I think someone else had suggested this, if it’s possible to surface the journals with JB Weld or similar.

…

All of which is not exactly helping the original post, about simply how to oil an EW Lathe.  Not rebuild one!

Still, this thread has showed Mr. Stringer’s design has plenty of followers.

 

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Hmm…Nigel, there comes a point when even the die-hards must retreat. But if you like a challenge and restoring stuff is your thing, don’t let the nay-sayers discourage you. Doubt if JB weld is your friend for this application though.

You would probably need to make up a jig with headstocks and EW tailstock all in alignment, clamped to a fixture on your myford with a custom made between centres boring bar lined up through the EW tailstock. Before getting a rush of blood to the head though, you might want to check that the present alignment of the (non adjustable) tailstock with the spindle is good, either with test bar or by taking cuts on a piece of bar-stock. As your headstock is worn, repeat a few times to get the modal error. Things to watch out for are wear on the sole of the tailstock and wear in the tailstock barrel boring as evidenced by a variation when you tighten/loosen the barrel clamp.

There is a design for a finely adjustable boring bar in one of the GHT books.

[Author]

Posts