Euro space station

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Hi all,

thanks to swimbo just seen the Euro space station….a big one for me……

it's always been to cloudy, rainy etc etc……

might just get a Telescope……

clogs

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Since Neil got me excited about telescopes a month or so back by posting glorious astro-photos I've been counting the number of clear nights here. So far only 3 nights with any hope of 'good' seeing, and I could only have taken advantage of one of them. Even though we may be going through an exceptionally bad time for cloud cover it's put me off big time.

At least a workshop doesn't rely quite so much on good weather, and my 'Stevenson Approved' armchair is always available!

Dave

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

He has got us all at it, i have my camera on a tripod waiting for the moon to come up.

I even looked at a 6" reflective telescope yesterday in Pwllheli yesterday.

Bri

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

It can turn into a pretty expensive hobby and also has it's pitfalls – far worse than buying chinese lathes.

If the area people are in just happens to only have low pressure sodium lights about there is a type of filter that can improve viewing to a remarkable degree. The one to get if they can be found just rejects the sodium line and nothing else. People like Beacon hill may be able to still get them. I live around 2 miles from B'ham city centre. With this filter and looking away from the city, any other direction other than north for me I could see nebulosity easily. Don't expect all of the fantastic colours shown in photo's though. Only cameras can catch those as the light levels are too low for the human eye – just like the northern lights. Colour can be seen in stars at time if people are into that.

They installed the other types of light round here last year. I don't think anyone will come up with a good filter for those.

I'd only buy a UK made newtonian telescope and expect to spend some time aligning it. They can be pretty cheap really 2nd hand. The makers sometimes have odd used ones for sale too.

John

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[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

One of the most enjoyable 'nights out' me & the missus have had recently was that hot & balmy summers evening we stopped up, drank wine on the patio & got Google Sky loaded on the tablet.

There aren't many of us who would entertain the company of folk who discuss the orbit of Venus's 7th moon like it was important in the general scale of things . . . but my God, it can be sooo romantic up there.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I must have fallen asleep for a few decades? Since when did we have a euro space station and venus acquire moons?

It's been a whie since I carted the heavy lump of 6" refractor out of the barn…. pretty dusty now so if anyone wants it at a fair price….

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Ignore John's purchasing advice

The scopes made by Synta in China (Skywatcher, Celestron) will give you excellent results for your money (under £200), but if you want to spend without an upper limit, be my guest…

Collimation takes about five to ten minutes one you have your eye in.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/12/2016 18:40:17:

Ignore John's purchasing advice

Neil

Fine – at your peril.

A 6" F5 used cost me £200 with some bits and pieces. The VX6 is currently £316+vat new and it's worth paying an extra £10 for the right angle finder. The 1/10 wave upgrade is currently free. It sits fairly happily on an EQ4 head providing that's on an EQ5 tripod.

I've had all sorts though and agree with Texereau. An 8" F6 Newtonian is a good all round compromise for just about everything including reasonably priced eyepieces. Bigger can have better resolution but in real terms few people will have conditions that allow them to really show. They do gather more light though.

8" is a good size for Schmidt Cas's as well. Easy to handle. I think Meade is the best option on those now. Good rigid stand. Might find one of those for about £600. They can be used for all sorts even photography with a focal reducer. The fork mount stand they can come on is the best option – not the german abortion that more or less has to be used on other types. Photo's may need an equatorial wedge but people have managed without.

Alignment – When some one like Neil has aligned a scope it can be worth going back to basics. First thing, is the 2ndry mirror in the right place. Aligned with the eyepiece tube and showing the entire bottom of the tube centrally – dead on ideally. Then bring in the main mirror. It takes more than 5 mins and the mirrors are very likely to need cleaning on a used scope. Not too much of a problem if they are over coated. The increase in light output can be amazing even on a scope that is only a few years old. This can apply to SCT's too.

John

–

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Ajohnw on 17/12/2016 19:35:00:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/12/2016 18:40:17:

Ignore John's purchasing advice

Neil

Fine – at your peril.

A 6" F5 used cost me £200 with some bits and pieces. The VX6 is currently £316+vat new and it's worth paying an extra £10 for the right angle finder. The 1/10 wave upgrade is currently free. It sits fairly happily on an EQ4 head providing that's on an EQ5 tripod.

I've had all sorts though and agree with Texereau. An 8" F6 Newtonian is a good all round compromise for just about everything including reasonably priced eyepieces. Bigger can have better resolution but in real terms few people will have conditions that allow them to really show. They do gather more light though.

8" is a good size for Schmidt Cas's as well. Easy to handle. I think Meade is the best option on those now. Good rigid stand. Might find one of those for about £600. They can be used for all sorts even photography with a focal reducer. The fork mount stand they can come on is the best option – not the german abortion that more or less has to be used on other types. Photo's may need an equatorial wedge but people have managed without.

Alignment – When some one like Neil has aligned a scope it can be worth going back to basics. First thing, is the 2ndry mirror in the right place. Aligned with the eyepiece tube and showing the entire bottom of the tube centrally – dead on ideally. Then bring in the main mirror. It takes more than 5 mins and the mirrors are very likely to need cleaning on a used scope. Not too much of a problem if they are over coated. The increase in light output can be amazing even on a scope that is only a few years old. This can apply to SCT's too.

John

–

The case for the defence m'lord, wishes to rest. My, how we wish to rest.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Mick Charity on 17/12/2016 19:45:55:

Posted by Ajohnw on 17/12/2016 19:35:00:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/12/2016 18:40:17:

Ignore John's purchasing advice

Neil

Fine – at your peril.

A 6" F5 used cost me £200 with some bits and pieces. The VX6 is currently £316+vat new and it's worth paying an extra £10 for the right angle finder. The 1/10 wave upgrade is currently free. It sits fairly happily on an EQ4 head providing that's on an EQ5 tripod.

I've had all sorts though and agree with Texereau. An 8" F6 Newtonian is a good all round compromise for just about everything including reasonably priced eyepieces. Bigger can have better resolution but in real terms few people will have conditions that allow them to really show. They do gather more light though.

8" is a good size for Schmidt Cas's as well. Easy to handle. I think Meade is the best option on those now. Good rigid stand. Might find one of those for about £600. They can be used for all sorts even photography with a focal reducer. The fork mount stand they can come on is the best option – not the german abortion that more or less has to be used on other types. Photo's may need an equatorial wedge but people have managed without.

Alignment – When some one like Neil has aligned a scope it can be worth going back to basics. First thing, is the 2ndry mirror in the right place. Aligned with the eyepiece tube and showing the entire bottom of the tube centrally – dead on ideally. Then bring in the main mirror. It takes more than 5 mins and the mirrors are very likely to need cleaning on a used scope. Not too much of a problem if they are over coated. The increase in light output can be amazing even on a scope that is only a few years old. This can apply to SCT's too.

John

–

The case for the defence m'lord, wishes to rest. My, how we wish to rest.

Perhaps it would be best for you to go outside and have a drink. Maybe you need to.

John

–

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

I think that the point I'm trying to make is . . . probably, that maybe somehow, some of us are different.

Some of us can spend £1000's to gaze at the stars & yet they see nothing that those of us who spend £nothing see . . . How on earth can you hold the hand of your nearest & dearest if your right eyeball is totally focused on the spotter lens?

I don't know anything, but the last time I got close to a bloke who owned a 6" refractor that cost £1000's. . . Well it was nice to look through his 6" refractor, but I'm not sure that I would have left my kids alone with him.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Must admit, I'm surprised by John's attitude to Chinese scopes – on the whole astronomers are much less sniffy about Chinese imports than model engineers.

Here's a selection of scopes starting at £44, none of which will disappoint although they may make you want to buy a bigger one.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

Just like a lathe, the best one is the one that gets used and you enjoy using. Big and expensive is not necessarily better judged by that standard.

Neil

[DodParticipant @dod]

Was in LIDL today and they have telescopes in, no idea about what they are like as all I need to know of the sky is it dark or light.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If I am looking for astro items I generally look here

**LINK**

Also ebay and dealers used stock.

I don't have a 6" refractor but do have a 5" apo refractor that came with a very hefty stand. I bought it of some one that had to buy a Takahashi and didn't pay a lot for it at all. It's the first one they made and APO's were not that popular when I bought it. It's an excellent scope. Also a lighter APO by William Optics. I did buy that new. WO had a very generous offer on in the USA. It's a MegRex 110mm. I found an interesting dealer in the USA, He sold one or two things that he had some one make. I asked him if he would buy and check it for me and ship it across. It took some time to sort out so I phone WO's USA distributors and asked them what was going on. They were having problems sorting one out that I would be happy with. They did a month or so later. The dealer had told me that if he wasn't happy he would send it back. He must have warned them. False colour was my main worry. These scopes are all pretty good in that respect and don't fetch high prices used. The Meade's don't either. Ideally those need to be on the mount Meade sold with them or think say an EQ6 otherwise.

My first decent scope was a Celestron 8" Schmidt Cas. I sold it and went for a used 10". Both gone now but wanting something fairly capable and easy to move around I bought a used Meade 8" classic on a fork mount, Cost used £600 with some bits that I have since sold.

I do have an Orion UK 6" newtonian. Part of a project. Stick it in the car and drive to somewhere dark for photography. The first mount I acquired for that was a mistake. The EQ4 on an EQ5 tripod looks far more promising. It will be totally automated controlled with a tablet and ras pi so that I can remain in the car. Some more aspects to sort out. This scope was bought used for a bit over £200. It would have cost more with CNC rings but I didn't want them so it came with the original rings.

Sticking a camera on a scope tends to make up for size but for visual use some people build massive scopes. The reason is simple. The diameter sets the amount of light that is concentrated into the eye. It's an area relationship so going from 8" to say 20" makes a huge difference for visual use. Refractors have far more contrast than any of the usual reflector arrangements. Same sort of effect as size really. My 5" apo will beat an 8" scope easily in that respect. Trouble is though that the refractor does need to be an apo really.

And on the comment by Neil I have had several Chinese scopes off their better manufacturer. It's a bit like people who like chedar cheese and have never tried real west country stuff only worse. Not that Orion are perfect really as their idea of 1/10 wave isn't as some would have it but it is frequently a lot better than others and in real terms good enough. Light buckets – big dobsonians are another matter. Their main aim is to capture light and optical performance can be pretty crap on nebular type subjects.

John

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[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Those of us who practice radio astronomy don't care if it's daylight, foggy, or raining. We can sit in the warm, listening to stuff from the remote Universe, colliding galaxies and all manner of celestial mayhem, using a USB 'dongle' costing 15 quid…

Geoff

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Don't know too much about the subject myself but there's a chap, John Fletcher, about half-a-mile from me that has his own observatory. Mount Tuffley Observatory

Roger

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Geoff Theasby on 18/12/2016 21:27:44:

Those of us who practice radio astronomy don't care if it's daylight, foggy, or raining. We can sit in the warm, listening to stuff from the remote Universe, colliding galaxies and all manner of celestial mayhem, using a USB 'dongle' costing 15 quid…

Geoff

That was my aim too with an optical telescope but then they changed the street lights. Puts a bit of a damper on things. For some years now there is often a high thin mist which makes that problem a lot worse. I suspect that is some sort of pollution as it tends to be worse near cities.

If they hadn't changed the lights my observatory would have been too small for me to get into it.

John

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[Roger HeadParticipant @rogerhead16992]

Posted by Ajohnw on 17/12/2016 18:22:34:

… Don't expect all of the fantastic colours shown in photo's though. Only cameras can catch those as the light levels are too low for the human eye – just like the northern lights.

John

For 20 or 30 years our holidays have simply been ocean cruises for a few weeks, out and about in the South Pacific. I like it because it's a means of getting away from the world, family, grandkids, etc. My wife loves it also for the same reasons, but the last few years she keeps nudging me about how much she would love to see the northern lights. I suspect that pictures of the NL might be like pictures of colourful nebulae, gas clouds, etc i.e. beautiful by timed exposure, but perhaps less impressive to the naked eye.

What is the truth?

Roger

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Roger Head on 19/12/2016 04:07:13:

I suspect that pictures of the NL might be like pictures of colourful nebulae, gas clouds, etc i.e. beautiful by timed exposure, but perhaps less impressive to the naked eye.

What is the truth?

Roger

.

Joanna Lumley seemed suitably impressed [see Part 5] **LINK**

I've never been, myself, but the aircraft trips look interesting, too:

http://www.auroraflights.co.uk

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/12/2016 06:57:15

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

As for the European Space Station, follow this link:-
**LINK**

BobH

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

You think that looking at the stars is weird?. I know people who build radio receivers so they can listen to thunderstorms on Jupiter. I takes all sorts to make a world.

:0)

Martin

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If the northern lights are as bright as the Aurora Australis, and I'm sure they are, anyone seeing them will be awe struck, I saw my first Aurora from Dunedin (NZ) when I was about 8yrs old, and I remember it as if it was yesterday.

Ian S C

[Dave MartinParticipant @davemartin29320]

Posted by Ajohnw on 17/12/2016 18:22:34:….. Don't expect all of the fantastic colours shown in photo's though. Only cameras can catch those as the light levels are too low for the human eye – just like the northern lights. Colour can be seen in stars at time if people are into that……

Agree a good camera may bring out more colour, but you can definitely see the colour in the Northern Lights with the naked eye. I'm lucky to live in a 'dark sky' environment on the Northern coast of the Isle of Man* and I do see the aurora borealis from time to time. Have seen various curtain and finger patterns in pastel shades, mostly low elevation, but memorably some years ago I spent ages just lying on my back on the grass entranced by an 'umbrella ribs' pattern, with green ribs branching from my zenith down to the horizon over almost 180 degrees from W through N to E.

* I do have a niggle though with a different sort of Northern Lights – aids to navigation on IOM are under the Northern Lighthouse Board, and our local light at the Point of Ayre appears to have had the 'blinkers' realigned so I have peripheral Fl(4) W every 20s.

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Dod on 18/12/2016 19:44:01:

Was in LIDL today and they have telescopes in, no idea about what they are like as all I need to know of the sky is it dark or light.

I have one of the Lidl Bresser ones. The eyepieces are naff, but for the tripod and mount (you can use is in Alt-Az or EQ mode) are OK for getting into observing. I still managed to capture the transit of Mercury left and below centre) with mine using a heavier tripod & mount (and , of course, a proper solar filter – never look at the sun without one).

This is Jupiter taken with the Lidl scope and a £15 webcam. A bit out of focus:

Both those images are stacks of multiple images but aren't far off what you can see through a reasonable eyepiece.

So not a world class scope, but not useless either.

Neil

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