Ether

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

herewith details of a supplier of Ether.

R & L Slaughter

11/12 Upminster trading Park

Warley street

Upminster

Essex

RM14 3PJ

http://www.slaughter.co.uk

Sales :- 01708 227140, Diethyl Ether Rectapur, £40.40 per 2.5Ltr flask. there would be a delivery charge also.

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ether supplier

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Note that diethyl ether is (1) highly volatile, (2) highly inflammable, (3) ignites at 160 degrees C (so a naked flame is not necessary to ignite it!), highly narcotic (as used in anaesthesia). It also has a tendency to form a highly explosive peroxide if left in partially full bottles for any length of time; this has a much higher boiling point and will thus become concentrated by evaporation.

Don't wish to spoil your fun, it is used in large quantities every day in thousands of laboratories (must have got through a few hundred litres myself) but you do need to be aware of the risks.

David

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks Clive,

As suspected though it is an expensive way of obtaining fuel

Maths were never my best subject but on a quick calculation based on 30% ether content and not counting the additional cost of the castor, paraffin or ignition improver this works out at £12.12 for 2.5 litres of fuel.

2.5 ltrs of 'Sport Mix' from Southern Modelcraft at last years Nats was £12.50 so no contest for me I'm afraid.

Thanks for taking the trouble to find out and post though – much appreciated

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 16/07/2012 14:50:49

[SteveWParticipant @stevew54046]

I understand (having bought from both) that Model Technics and Southern Modelcraft supply ether for diesel fuel as well as ready mixed fuel.

I still prefer to mix my own – perhaps its the danger of blowing the roof off the shed!

Before you admonish me I do really mix on the table in the garden so fumes are dispersed as soon and as safely as possible.

SteveW

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Is this the same sort of stuff that we used to make model diesel engine fuel from

"Methyl-tert-butylether (MTBE) 99,5+%".

I am looking to make some model diesel engine fuel as I can't find any that I can get by post here in France.

Bob

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

Here, Switzerland, I was able to buy Diethyl Ether at the local chemist (Apotheke). This was for use as a starting aid for my diesel.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Whilst at University we used Ether as a solvent. I can still see the effect of it igniting in the plumbing system of the row of connected sinks. It was a very impressive sight. Luckily it didn't injure anyone.It does need to be handled with respect.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Way back when we used it as the anaesthetic it is. As a student seeing practice the boss described an incident when someone walked into the theatre with a cigarette.. blew the windows out as well as cat.

..

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Apparently you can use John Deere Diesel start which is 80% ether (If I can find it) and a drop or two of Nitro Methane !!!

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hi Speedy,

Please don't use nitomethane in diesel fuel! That is for glow engines. The old fashioned "dope" was amyl nitrate or amyl nitrite. Try getting that from a chemist these days. I did as a boy!

I believe that some of the commercial octane (or is it cetane) boosters can substitute for the old nitrate or nitrite, but for the life of me I can't remember the names.

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Hi Speedy,

Please don't use nitomethane in diesel fuel! That is for glow engines. The old fashioned "dope" was amyl nitrate or amyl nitrite. Try getting that from a chemist these days. I did as a boy!

I believe that some of the commercial octane (or is it cetane) boosters can substitute for the old nitrate or nitrite, but for the life of me I can't remember the names.

Andrew.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I stand corrected – still seems nasty stuff and I won't attempt to get it as this seems to do the trick for non competition engines:

Kerosene – 35% Read UK Paraffin/ heating oil or French Petrole
Ether – 35%
Castor Oil – 30%

This is an interesting read Diesel engine low down

But this is a mix for his performance diesel engines. (2 Stroke compression engines)

Kerosene – 27.5%
Ether – 40%
Castor Oil – 30%
Octyl Nitrate – 2.5%

Bob

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 23/08/2023 19:16:11:

I stand corrected – still seems nasty stuff and I won't attempt to get it as this seems to do the trick for non competition engines:

Kerosene – 35% Read UK Paraffin/ heating oil or French Petrole
Ether – 35%
Castor Oil – 30%

This is an interesting read Diesel engine low down

But this is a mix for his performance diesel engines. (2 Stroke compression engines)

Kerosene – 27.5%
Ether – 40%
Castor Oil – 30%
Octyl Nitrate – 2.5%

Bob

 

Hi Bob,

Nitromethane in glow fuel is basically there to increase power and, as Andrew points out, is not something to be used in the make up of 'diesel' fuel. As the nitro increases in percentage so the mechanics of the enginee need to change to accommodate it.

Basically  –  'Ignition improver' on the other hand is used to smooth the ignition point in compression ignition engines. I'm not aware of 'Octyl' nitrate being used for this but this may be a substitute for IPN (Iso Propyl (?) Nitrate – I think)

Outside of some esoteric, very dangerous substances, power increase in normal CI engine fuel – commonly referred to as 'diesel' fuel – is usually achieved by increasing the paraffin content at the expense of the ether and/or oil content, the ignition improver remaining constant within a half percent or so.

Diesel fuel has now become prohibitively expensive at the (very) few sources available. For years I have used fuel produced by Southern Modelcraft based in Tonbridge in Kent but that, unfortunately, is collection only or from their stand at the model shows they attend. They will also sell ether and gnition improver as well as castor oil but there is no real advantage of mixing your own over buying it in half gallon sizes.

I guess this is for your rebuilt ED 3.46 so if you do manage to find some, or the ingredients for it, hope it runs well for you

 

Best – Tug

PS I note in a previous post from 2012 I stated the Southern Modelcraft 'Sport Mix' was £12.50 per 2.5 Litres – that's now £28.00 !!  That said it is still the least expensive available I believe.

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 24/08/2023 14:13:58

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 24/08/2023 14:19:07

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Lest anybody gets put off making small "diesel" engines, an internet search for "model diesel engine fuel uk" will show several model shops who will sell fuel for delivery by courier. Not cheap – Model Shop Leeds will sell you a litre for £20 plus a tenner for delivery. Not really expensive compared to the cost of materials these days. I've still got half a tin left from the the Dyno I made a few years ago but I expect all the ether content has evaporated by now.

Rod

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Hang on Rod – we bought diesel fuel with pocket money when we were kids – How much money do kids get today? Its like everything today, price of copper – it used to be dirt cheap, every thing was made of copper and brass but today I can't afford it.

When I was 12 and at boarding school, we had 10/- a term pocket money – subtract 2/- for church collection (3 pence per week), 4 or 5 trips to the swimming pool 2/6d, the odd packet of crisps and a few sweets 1/6d, 2 hair cuts 3/- that left about 1 shilling and we still bought a can of fuel or more each term. How did that work out ?? I don't remember knicking any as I were a "good" lad.

We had control line planes that we flew under the supervision of the French teacher, tethered prop driven trolley cars on the school yard, running engines up in the shed and the odd bit of fuel in a water pistol and a lighted match – such fun.

Bob

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Rod,

Providing it's well stoppered diesel fuel will keep for years in a tin. Some years back at a swapmeet I bought an old tin of Keil Kraft fuel – specifically for the tin itself. It was about 2/3 full however and yes it still worked ok though exactly how old it was I have no idea. I use Southern Modelcraft fuel and used to buy it at shows so have a decent stock. Current 2.5 litre tin in use is marked (by me) 2014. Slightest leak though it's another story as that ether soon depletes.

Bob – not sure how old you are but I bought my first half pint can of KK fuel c1958. Something tells me that was around 3 shillings (3/3d?) but the pint tin was 4/6d. It was rare – for me – to be able to afford the pint tin! Four years later and I'm in the army – a pint of beer was around 1/4d if memory serves correct but even that is now approaching untenable expenditure – the inflation on diesel is far greater it would seem and yes it is an expensive commodity.

Even paraffin has suffered the same – just bought 4 litres for a penny short of nine quid

As far as I'm aware there are only two suppliers of (castor based) diesel fuel now. Southern Modelcraft whose proprieter is retiring this coming year and the company that took over Model Technics whose outlet for diesel is Leeds Model Shop as Rod says.

Western Engines does 'ED Super Zip' but this is a synthetic oil based fuel.

Making or running model diesel engines has unfortunately become an expensive pastime!

Best – Tug

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