Engineer’s Blue

[robert ramageParticipant @robertramage25020]

Hi clive were about do you live?

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I have to agree with first time poster Peter Amor and Eric. despite having tried felt tip pen etc., my long-lived tin of Stuart's Micrometer paste from Chronos is ten years old, still works and shows strong colour even when you are putting it on really, really thin and is the iodeal solution for fitting. I have spent far more in felt tips for marking out over that period.

I'm as tight fisted as the next of you, but this is one fairly cheap item that repays the investment.

Neil

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Clive, Both Clive H and Mike beat me and yes it is comon practice in the UK gun trade to use a smoke lamp for fitting and possibly may be more accurate than engineers blue.

The usual type of lamp uses pariffin oil and I have used a kelly lamp for years for this because it is useful to be able to raise and lower the flame.

Whether its possible to use smoke depends on what you want to fit, e.g. fitting a bearing in say a lathe headstock would be difficult because you need to hold the bearing above the flame to deposit the soot but the method is ideal for smaller work.

As for supplies nearer to "home" try India, I feel sure that it will be used there and remember not everyone uses blue, in continental europe much of the product is orange!

Good luck in your quest. John

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi

Think Ian has the answer printers in and a spot of meths

Bob

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Hi

It realy is a no brainer, buy the correct item. I got a small tin from my dad (I am 68) 25 yers ago, and it will outlast me.

Never dry's out, why play about when it is sold for pennies?

Ian

[Ian FowkesParticipant @ianfowkes89537]

With all respect, have the people who are suggesting buy the proper stuff not read the original post where Clive clearly explains that it is simply not available where he lives (see his profile for location). He also explains that overseas post in that country is not reliable.

Ian

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Indeed I did read and understood the original post when I posted that Arc Eurotrade supply the "proper stuff". What Ian should realise is that forums like this lead from one person's question to another and it is quite possible that people who do have access to a reliable postal service may not know a source of the commercial product.

If I were in Clive's position I would perhaps chance the postal service however unreliable with such a low value item.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Clive.

For a drying marker I use an extra large permanent "Sharpie" marking pen It dries quickly.

For large castings you can buy line marker in pressure packs from builders suppliers White, Orange, Black and Blue are available from local suppliers in Melbourne OZ where I live. it is fairly thick so not ideal for fine work.

I use Prussian blue artists oil colour as a marker for scraping and fitting. This is available from artists suppliers. Don't make the mistake of buying the "Student Grade" (I did) Ask the assistant for the best available it will cost more but it is worth it, High quality Prussian blue artists colour is very finely milled and pure without additives. You do not need a huge tube a small tube will last a long time.

The real art is in applying it to the work thinly and evenly. For large flat areas a small softish rubber roller about 50mm wide; also available from artists suppliers, will assist in rolling out a thin even coating. (Make sure it rolls true…..or make your own) the coating should be almost transparent. once applied place the two parts to be mated together and if possible slide them a few millimetres. You will find the high points to be scraped off clearly marked.

If you have a surface plate you can roll the coating on that. and use it as the master. A small sheet of plate glass works well.

The oil paint should not dry out for a few hours allowing you to work for quite a while touching up the coating as you go with the roller.

For non flat areas I find a finger is hard to beat although it is a little messy.

At the end of the session clean up the work, master, roller and your hands! (use sparingly on them) with mineral turpentine.

Hopefully the materials are available in your area.

Cheers

John

Edited By John McNamara on 25/05/2012 14:00:41

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Clive to Clive, This is a long shot for you, If you know anyone from the British Emabssy could you not try and get a small package through safely in a postal system that way?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I think I mentioned this earlier, lipstick is a good alternative to marking blue, should be available just about anywhere. I wouldn't ask the embassy.

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by Gordon W on 26/05/2012 14:45:33:

I think I mentioned this earlier, lipstick is a good alternative to marking blue, should be available just about anywhere. I wouldn't ask the embassy.

For sure not. Walking into the embassy and asking them for some lipstick might get some very strange looks – to say the least

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The mension of printers ink gave me an idea and I tried ink from a ball point pen,

Cut the end of the pen and extract the ink and wipe over the plate with a cloth.

Works a treat in an emergency for small jobs.

A standard pen holds enough ink to cover an area 100mm x 100mm.

One of the larger "Parker" type pens would do a bigger area.

 

Edited By Paul Lousick on 29/05/2012 13:21:07

[Paul NarramoreParticipant @paulnarramore61033]

In my ignorance, I recently bought some Micrometer Blue thinking it was Engineers Blue. Wrong! A friend then put me right in that Micrometer Blue was used to detect highlights between two parts whereas I had wanted a 'marking out blue'. I think a broad tipped felt tip such as Edding or Sharpie will fit the bill.

[Black Cat2Participant @blackcat256889]

red oxide primer on steel?.
Its probably going to be painted after anyway

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi clive,

i agree that engineer's blue for fitting is quite different.

i have a spare tin that im unlikely to use before i pop my clogs and you are welcome to have it.

cheers,

julian

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Be careful if using printing ink, it is a known cause of cancer.

Emgee

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Paul Narramore on 20/10/2015 20:39:42:

I think a broad tipped felt tip such as Edding or Sharpie will fit the bill.

I found that "permanent" markers tend to wash off with my non-aqueos cutting fluid. The, I presume, shellac based marking fluid stays put until wiped off with meths. Reeves and Blackgates both sell little bottles.

Rod

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 20/10/2015 23:24:17:

Posted by Paul Narramore on 20/10/2015 20:39:42:

I think a broad tipped felt tip such as Edding or Sharpie will fit the bill.

I found that "permanent" markers tend to wash off with my non-aqueos cutting fluid.

Me too. I found that they also tend to wear off rather easily with handling Nor do they go on particularly well in the first place on, possibly oily, material unless you clean it with a solvent first. It can be "awkward" if you've lost your line part-way through making the part.

Given the relatively small cost of the real stuff, it seems a pity to cut corners on it.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

As an apprentice, marking out blue was kept in a jam jar stuck to a pad of plywood, there was probably more blue on the outside than the inside !! As it was open to atmosphere, it was nice and thick and worked really well. I have to say that the last 'bottle' that I bought was a bit thin, so I left the top off for 6 weeks or more for it to thicken up.
I have used ROCOL marking blue in an aerosol can, but found that it needed 3 coats or more to get a half decent result. As others have said, a felt pen works well for smaller parts – saves washing the brush out in meths.

[Black Cat2Participant @blackcat256889]

No I dont..Wrong question sorry

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

As far as I know micrometer blue is an old style oil paint but may be ground more finely. I'd hazard a guess that it could be made by mixing oil paint with a grease such as vaseline.

A much older alternative that I have used is raddle. The name comes from rouge but it was made by mixing very finely ground red lead oxide with oil. If finely ground rouge is available it might be possible to make some. I doubt if that will be red lead oxide now. Actually raddle is much easier to use than blue. A thicker coating can be applied so there isn't any need to use such a thin coating of blue that it's hard to see it.

The easiest answer to marking out blue is to scribe a heavier line. This might still be a problem for older eyes. If a marker pen is used there is no need to cover everything with it – just where lines need to be scribed. No marking out blue when I did my apprenticeship. Some interesting tasks like filing to a scribed line but only reducing it's size by a factor of 2. Mostly on sheet metal work. It's possible to work to around 0.001in that way. Plenty of raddle as they also owned a battery factory so the lead oxide was easy to get.

John

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[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Emgee

Have you any evidence that PI causes cancer? if you eat cans of it?

I've spent nearly 40 years in the print industry and never heard of that

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

Our favourite use for engineers blue was to smear some round the eyepiece of a loupe, and then invite some unsuspecting bod in the workshop to come and admire the finish on something we were working on.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ian Parkin on 21/10/2015 16:02:46:

Emgee

Have you any evidence that PI causes cancer? if you eat cans of it?

I've spent nearly 40 years in the print industry and never heard of that

Neither had I (although I have heard that licking your fingers when counting photcopied sheetsis a bad idea because of the carbon black. But Unite says "There is a large body of medical evidence which implicates work in the printing industry with an increased risk of developing Bladder Cancer."

Neil

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Rouge is iron oxide, not lead. Still widely availabl in powder form. Don't know how finely it is ground. Also used as a very fine abrasive for polishing.

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