Engineers blue alternatives

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

i bought some engineers blue that came in a small tin. It's like a cream and oh boy what a messy product. End up with blue everywhere.

Are there alternatives i.e. A pen or spray paint or both

Edited By petro1head on 19/05/2017 06:48:58

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

For layout and marking out I use Dykem but for checking fit or scraping I've never used anything other than Stuarts Engineers blue. I do buy mine in the tube now (sold by most suppliers eg Arc, RDG) as I find the tube more convenient.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

This has been covered in a scraping thread over the last week or so.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I think this is the thread Chris refers to.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Indeed, you have the opposite problem to Mr Tinsley!

I can't believe this, within the same week, two posters have confused engineers blue for different purposes!

The stuff you want is layout ink, not the marking paste, that's used to find contact points on metal and scraping.

You can get it in a bottle or spray. Failing that a whiteboard marker will do for most jobs.

Don't throw it out though, it's still useful! Just not for what you want 

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael-w on 19/05/2017 07:52:11

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Gunsmiths traditionally use a smoke lamp to deposit a very thin layer of carbon on the surface to be checked. It's nothing more than a small paraffin lamp with the wick turned up to give a smoky flame, although a candle will do.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

In an emergency you can dilute Marking Blue with Meths to make a Layout Blue substitute. I don't recommend it. The paste doesn't dissolve without mechanical effort, it's messy (you're liable to end up looking like a Smurf), and when applied to metal the coverage isn't as good as the real thing. You can make a similar potion with the ink from lots of cheap blue biros. A lot of trouble for a moderate result.

I've used various types of felt-tip markers with mixed success. So far nothing has worked as well as commercial Layout Blue. Judging by the number of Health and Safety warnings on my bottle of Dykem, there's more to making a good blue than mixing dye and alcohol.

I've never tried Copper Sulphate solution which the old guys swore by and at. I believe it's only good for marking steel, not other metals.

Dave

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Felt tip pen, black or blue

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mick on 19/05/2017 09:05:25:

Felt tip pen, black or blue

Which make Mick? I'm using a Berol at the moment. It's OK but not as good as an unbranded I got from a Pound shop. Of course the Pound Shop no longer sells them.

Ta Dave

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

I saw that thread thanks but felt my question was different enough to warrent a new thread

So, felt tip pen? Any particular one?

Is there a spray?

Edit:  Nissen seem to do exactly what I want  https://www.nissenmarkers.com/product/guidelines/ and  https://www.nissenmarkers.com/product/blue-layout-fluid/ however struggling to find any in the UK

Edited By petro1head on 19/05/2017 10:44:17

[VicParticipant @vic]

I've used Pilot brand jumbo markers for many years, far more convenient than layout fluid. You have a choice of blue, black, red or green.

[VicParticipant @vic]

**LINK**

You can get refill ink for these if required as well.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by petro1head on 19/05/2017 10:32:04:

I saw that thread thanks but felt my question was different enough to warrent a new thread

So, felt tip pen? Any particular one?

Is there a spray?

Edit: Nissen seem to do exactly what I want **LINK** and **LINK** however struggling to find any in the UK

Edited By petro1head on 19/05/2017 10:44:17

As someone mentioned, there is a spray can layout blue dye called Dykem that is widely available. Google Dykem layout fluid and you should find it locally.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

I just use one of these:-

WH Smith permanent marker, blue, black, red etc.

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

For small jobs I use a Pentel N60, Sharpie for really small items, Edding markers also work reasonably well, the only thing I find with markers is that if using paraffin as a cutting fluid on aluminium the colour of the marker soon comes off.

For a more durable layout I just use a bottle of "layout fluid" bought many years ago from one of the ME suppliers and a cheap small artists brush to apply

Rocol do a spray available from MSC in the UK

 

Edited By JasonB on 19/05/2017 11:36:39

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Hopper on 19/05/2017 11:04:38:

As someone mentioned, there is a spray can layout blue dye called Dykem that is widely available. Google Dykem layout fluid and you should find it locally.

Really, hmm, I challenge you to find some spray available in the UK

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by petro1head on 19/05/2017 11:24:56:

Posted by Hopper on 19/05/2017 11:04:38:

As someone mentioned, there is a spray can layout blue dye called Dykem that is widely available. Google Dykem layout fluid and you should find it locally.

Really, hmm, I challenge you to find some spray available in the UK

You could try Amazon ***LINK*** £15.65

John

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I have used permanent markers quite a lot but I coughed up for a bottle of Dykem, it is so much more durable and takes a very crisp line. It is the blue of choice for anything that is going to be handled a bit or have lots of work done on it. Still use marker pen for a quick simple job so I think it is a horses for courses choice. Dykem may seem a bit dear but it is a very good product, it is superior to the blue I used as an apprentice which could be a bit thick and not take such a fine line. As has been mentioned Prussian Blue artists oil paint is not bad for checking surfaces and fits but there is always the blue finger to be dealt with with all fitting blue. The toolmakers on the spotting presses used red lead on the dies, always amazed me that you could see your face in the cast iron after they had polished it. As is the way in a factory they were called "pig iron polishers" the millwrights were called hammers and spanners we were sparkys and so on.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 19/05/2017 11:49:55

Edited By Mike Poole on 19/05/2017 11:52:15

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Mike Poole on 19/05/2017 11:45:40:

I have used permanent markers quite a lot but I coughed up for a bottle of Dykem, it is so much more durable and takes a very crisp line. It is the blue of choice for anything that is going to be handled a bit or have lots of work done on it.

Mike

Good to know, thanks!

I have the same trouble with aluminium not taking the sharpie ink well after a judicious amount of WD40. 

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael-w on 19/05/2017 12:01:10

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Journeyman on 19/05/2017 11:33:40:

Posted by petro1head on 19/05/2017 11:24:56:

Posted by Hopper on 19/05/2017 11:04:38:

 

As someone mentioned, there is a spray can layout blue dye called Dykem that is widely available. Google Dykem layout fluid and you should find it locally.

Really, hmm, I challenge you to find some spray available in the UK

You could try Amazon ***LINK*** £15.65

John

​I saw that however its not in the UK but maybe the best option so far

Edited By petro1head on 19/05/2017 12:07:10

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Did you not see my link above to the Rocol that is available in teh UK

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Couple more photos to look at. They're the same mild steel plate at different angles to the light. The plate was degreased and wiped with meths.

From left to right they are:

• Unbranded Layout Blue bought at an Exhibition
• Dykem Blue bough recently in the UK, I think via Amazon
• Home-made by mixing Stuarts Micrometer Blue and Meths (bit thin)
• Berol Blue Permanent Marker (bit streaky)
• Unbranded Blue Whiteboard Marker (terrible; it works much better on a Whiteboard!)
• Sharpie Black Permanent Marker (faded to brown as it dried but usable)
• Sharpie Blue Permanent Marker (best of the felt tips I have)

When the plate is rubbed with kitchen paper, all the felt tip markings come away within 8 strokes. The Dykem is still solid after another 8, but the unbranded layout blue is beginning to show signs of wear.

So for best density and wear resistance buy the real thing BUT a decent felt tip is good enough for most work. You may need to experiment before finding a good felt tip.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by petro1head on 19/05/2017 11:24:56:

Posted by Hopper on 19/05/2017 11:04:38:

 

As someone mentioned, there is a spray can layout blue dye called Dykem that is widely available. Google Dykem layout fluid and you should find it locally.

Really, hmm, I challenge you to find some spray available in the UK

Why would I bother? It's not my problem. Best of luck with the search. (And with using the "cream" for layout work. )

Edited By Hopper on 19/05/2017 12:38:34

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by JasonB on 19/05/2017 12:22:32:

Did you not see my link above to the Rocol that is available in teh UK

Missed it Jason, thanks

[Author]

Posts