Engineer’s Blue

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

I have been reading notes on another thread about ‘engineer’s blue’ and ‘layout blue’. I am not able to source either where I live (and overeas post is not reliable).

 

In that thread alternatives were suggested to proprietory brands of ‘layout blue’ which I will try, but does anyone have a good alternative for ‘engineer’s blue’. Out of desperation I have been using thin enamel paint, but it isn’t really satisfactory.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

Clive.

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

An alternative?

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I think it was Tubal Cain who once suggested whitewash or presumably a thin white emulsion paint for castings.

 

Other ideas are some sort of copper (sulphate?) solution which leaves a thin covering of copper on the metal.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

Thanks Peter for your quick response.

 

I think I misled you by referring to both layout blue and engineer’s blue in my intorduction. What I am really referring to here is the latter ie ‘Engineer’s Blue’- to help me in the final stages of fitting of two components to show clearly the high spots.

Thank,

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Clive

I don’t know of an alternative as such but when I discussed hand scraping with my friend John some time back for another post on here he showed me a tip for the very final ‘touching up’. For this he used a wet layer of ordinary methylated spirit which he allowed to flash off on the surface. This left a barely perceptible coating which showed the high spots extremely well.

 

It’s just a thought but perhaps you could increase the colour in some meth slightly – contents from a felt pen maybe? and try that.

 

Or another, though I hasten to add untried possibility, would be to get some ‘blue’ artists pigment and mix to a thick paste with some oil – indeed what about trying artists oil paint.

 

Whatever hopes that helps some and if it works let us know how well.

 

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 01/05/2011 14:12:44

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

In the absence of eng. blue, for testing fits, any semi-solid coloured greasy stuff should work. Would recommend lipstick, can you get it where you are without raising eyebrows? Just draw 3 or 4 lines .

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Break an old printer cartridge open, after all engineers blue is actually a printing ink.

 

Used to be made by an old customer of mine Coates Lorilleux, before Sun Chemicals bought them out and they buggered off abroad.

 

John S

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Engineers blue, lip stick, it does’nt have to be blue.

Lay out blue, felt tip pen. Copper sulphate solution will give a light coppery film on the metal, not much use on brass of course. Stick to a broad tip felt pen. Ian S C

[Donald WittmannParticipant @donaldwittmann92536]

Like IanSC says, you can use a felt marker pen just make sure it’s a permanent type.

The best type for marking out metals is EDDINGS, although a Sharpie Magnum is a good alternative. Blue or Black does me on bright steels and Copper beryllium, I think Red would be good on Brass.

Regards,

Donald.

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

Thanks to all of you, tho’ my original question was related not to marking out, but testing fits hence the differentiation between Layout Blue and Engineer’s Blue. As Ramon suggested in the past I have tried artist oil paints (Ultramarine I seem to remember) but it didn’t show as well as the real stuff. I found that to get the layer thin enough to test for a close fit, the contrast on steel or cast iron was certainly lacking. I didn’t try another colour supecting that it was the lack of density of colour that was the issue.

 

I thought your idea of lipstick was brilliant, Gordon. Yes, it is easily available bere, but I would be seen a mile from the shop – best to use my wife’s, when she is not looking!

 

Thanks to others for your suggestions for marking out.

 

Clive.

 

 

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Clive,

regarding the oil paint – in case you aren’t aware this can be thickened considerably to a grease like state by laying a good splodge of it on a piece of thick card. Left for a few hours the card will absorb the oil especially if it’s the grey rough finished type card and leave the paint very stodgy indeed. That may improve matters.

 

Lipstick is a new one on me too but with plenty of the real thing (blue) at hand I’ll give it a miss for now

 

Regards – Ramon

[Colin Jacobs 1Participant @colinjacobs1]

I use Tipex.

 

[PatParticipant @pat]

The problem with artists oil color is the viscosity is too high for use as fitters / micrometer blue.  Thin with turps or  paraffin to get the desired mix.  I keep a tube of prussian blue to hand as it does not migrate everywhere unlike the stuff sold in tool shops.   As far as I can remember prussian blue is favored as it is less chemically reactive than some of the other artists pigments.

 

As for marking out there are any number of alternatives to the traditional marking out blue and each has their own advantages and problems. Spirit based felt pen is good and enables notes to be made on the part as well! If the part is iron or steel then copper sulfate is good – gives a very thin copper coating through which the marking out scratches show clearly. Add artists prussian blue oil color to knot stopping ( a shellack and methylated spirit preparation sold the world over to stop wood knots bleeding through paint work. This mix is similar to marking out blue and it smells nice! Artists oil colors make good micrometer fitting blue and other colors are available and it comes in nice small tubes as well. Soot from a candle also works well.

 

Hope this helps – Regards – Pat

Edited By Pat on 01/05/2011 20:24:01

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Hi all, for layout dye I’ve been using felt tip pens,dismantled and the contents put into meths.Felt tips from my local Wilco stores at 90p for 4,much cheaper than commercial dye and many pretty colours.

Regards Pailo.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I use a permanent marker pen. Perfect for testing the fit of tapers.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi All

I use black felt tip pen as well thinned with meths same as Pailo for laying out

Engineers Blue ? I prefer high spot blue ideal for shutting out tools and checking fits etc.

my Son was an RAF fitter & uses a permanent marker Same as Chris

Regards Nobby

 

 

 

 

[Clive BarkerParticipant @clivebarker72854]

Thanks all for your helpful suggestions. Was going to try to send you personal messages via the messaging option but it seemed too complicated.

[peter amorParticipant @peteramor79798]

Stuarts Engineering Micrometer Marking Blue Ebay £3-05 46 years as a fitter and always used it for fitting taper keys ect Have fun Pete

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Clive to Clive, If its any help then gunsmiths use lamp black, a sooty flame held near the surface to be checked and it is easy to see where interferance starts.

Clive

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Dammit, Clive, you beat me to it! The sooty candle flame from an over-long wick works pretty much the same.

Edited By Mike on 24/05/2012 15:46:34

[Ian FowkesParticipant @ianfowkes89537]

Someone briefly mentioned printing ink which strikes me as being an ideal engineers blue substitute, the thick gooey stuff as used in litho and other traditional print processes is oil based, will adhere to dry metal and will transfer easily on contact to another surface (that's what it does in it's intended use!) and should easily be available in Pakistan – perhaps you can scrounge the tiny amount you need from a friendly local printer – even an "empty" tin will probably yield enough. And it's available in any colour, even blue.

Ian,

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The problem with some of the suggestions for paint like substances is that if you don't clen them off the surface pate before drying then they can be a bit of a nuisance to get off and non setting is the target. Layout blue needs the opposite property which is why fast evaporating alcohol is the normal solvent..

The requirement is some pigment in which every single particle is fractions of a thou thick. Cheapo paints might have some coarse bits in.

Before commercial blue came along I believe red lead and chrome yellow (yeah yeah shock horror poisons alert) were used for the colouring but not sure of the carrier – glycerine for water based or vaseline for oil based perhaps.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Stuarts Micrometer Blue can be purchased from Arc Eurotrade £4.75 for a 32g tube that will last you a lifetime.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Clive,
You could try some of the ink from a ball point pen. I seems to have a similar consistancy to engineers blue.

Les.

[robert ramageParticipant @robertramage25020]

Hi clive were about do you live?

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