Engineering tuition recommendations

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Derek Lane on 18/03/2022 10:26:10:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/03/2022 10:15:31

The forum is excellent because it supports Question & Answer, but several answers usually have to be thought through to extract the most appropriate bits.

Dave

I agree many forum are a great source of information but only if you can stop the idiots that keep taking the subject matter off subject.

…

Though describing our learned friends as idiots is too strong, criticising posts going off subject is fair comment!

Difficult to avoid whilst remaining friendly. I see the forum as being like a group chatting at the bar about subjects of common interest. Discipline is out of place. The forum's strength is friendly conversation rather than as a slick reference.

Despite the obvious faults I like the conversational approach because it's more approachable than a bunch of erudite experts communicating super-efficiently in terse incomprehensible jargon. I hope new or inexperienced members are less intimidated from joining by threads sprinkled with jokes, anecdotes, misunderstandings and differing opinions than they would be by nothing but sharply relevant posts with perfect spelling, grammar and punctuation.

More work than I would take on, but we have several members capable of sifting out the best forum advice and republishing it tight to the point on Wikipedia. The same information might sell well as a book. Huge profits for someone, now there's a thought…

Dave

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/03/2022 13:54:46:

…criticising posts going off subject is fair comment!

Not really, it just reflects a closed mind and assumes that there is a right and wrong answer, which is rarely the case. Engineering doesn't work like that; it's as much an art as a science.

This thread is a case in point. It started with a general enquiry about learning manual machining. It then transpires that the OP is interested in building a large scale traction engine. That helps narrow down the advice given, and may make earlier posts seem less relevant.

Andrew

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

I agree, off topic is not a problem I try and answer questions from 50+ years of experience. I find similar ideas pop into my head and write them into the post while I remember them. In turn I expect that anyone reading the post may well have their memory jogged and so it goes on.

[Michael Cooper 5Participant @michaelcooper5]

I would first learn about feeds and speeds and tool geometry and stick to HSS to start with and understand the strength of your tool.Old British tooling was roughly based around the ability to remove a cubic inch per horsepower per minute, bearing in mind they were made out of the correct cast iron which was very stiff.But to become a craftsman your not allowed any electricity bar a pillar drill for the first 6 months.You will spend A week scraping and blueing a flat surface 4” square.My point is you don’t need to to do an apprenticeship to make great models.The advice I see in these comments is as good as any and no one knows it all👍

[Michael Cooper 5Participant @michaelcooper5]

Oh, and more importantly, No long hair, loose sleeves, ties , gloves etc and put your Google’s on 👍

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Cooper 5 on 19/03/2022 01:17:50:

Oh, and more importantly, No long hair, loose sleeves, ties , gloves etc and put your Google’s on 👍

I always wear a tie clip when using the lathe.

And I keep my grey dustcoat buttoned up as back-up.

Edited By Hopper on 19/03/2022 05:09:59

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

" I always wear a tie clip when using the lathe". You don't need one if you wear a bow tie

[Michael Cooper 5Participant @michaelcooper5]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 19/03/2022 05:28:18:

" I always wear a tie clip when using the lathe". You don't need one if you wear a bow tie

Fair enough fellas you win lol.Just thought it was worth mentioning if the guy is just staring out.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

As an accomplished purveyor of red herrings, will add my four penn'orth.

Evening classes are currently like hen's teeth, so joining a Model Engineering Society is a very good idea, ditto, keeping a close eye on this Forum. There is always something to learn.

As an Apprentice, all our courses, (Turning, Milling, Grinding, Fitting ) started with Safety. This is important, but very few Model Engineers, demonstrating or advising hands on practice will mention it. Just taken as read that all know how keep safe.

WRONG! If you have ever had a drill grab, when using a low powered pistol drill, you start, or should, learn to respect motorised tools.

It was many years after leaving the First Year Training school, before I next touched a machine tool (Saw quite a lot in the interim, though! ) before I finally achieved an ambition and owned a well used lathe.

Then the learning really started.

As confidence grew, so did the range of tasks undertaken. At the start, never imagined that I would ever screwcut, or cut gears. But I do, not very expertly, but they do the job, which is all that I ask.

But, as they say in agricultural circles, "Make haste, slowly"

Don't exceed your capabilities, by too much. For that way lies disillusionment, and possibly damage to machine, yourself or others. Stretching the boundaries A LITTLE, is the way to learn. Even if only that it was the wrong way to go about it!

Definitely buy and read books, by such as L H Sparey, Ian Bradley, G H Thomas, Stan Bray, David Clark, Dave Fenner, Harold Hall, or Neil Wyatt. You can profit from their experience.

Having joined a M E Society, don't be afraid to ask questions, for help and advice.if some kind member/s will help to teach you, Ignore those who ridicule you. They have forgotten that once they did not know!

Beware! You may learn some of their bad habits! Also, some techniques may not necessarily read directly across from one machine to another in detail.

And we will all try to teach you to ride our particular hobby horses.

Howard

.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 19/03/2022 05:28:18:

" I always wear a tie clip when using the lathe". You don't need one if you wear a bow tie

But one would look like a toff then. That wouldn't do at all.

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Posted by David-Clark 1 18/03/2022 08:46:06

Notable moment in Model Engineers’ Workshop, yhe CBC Tool and Cuter
Grinder, I think a world first.

So, self taught is good.

Hi David,

Sorry to hear of your past and present problems.

I am in the self taught camp as well.

It is now nearly 14 years since the Cnc cutter grinder article was published
in MEW ,i wonder if any others have been made ,there seem to be
plenty of similar setups working in the same way on You tube now, but back
then i don't know , most likely as you said " I think a world first".

I seem to remember there were some dissenting voices on this
when you published this same statement when you left as editor, naturally
there was no alternative methods proposed by these folk other than chop of
the end of a cutter with an angle grinder and spend nearly £1000
on an Arc euro grinder.

Here is the certificate and bronze medal that i was awarded thanks to you
for encouraging me to enter this machine in the 2012 Model engineer exhibition.

Sadly the magazine no longer seems to have had any proper machine
type builds since you left it is all short and repeated subjects,the
300 anniversary issue was i thought very poor the last straw for me
was the skeleton on a bicycle two issues later on was
enough for me to chuck in the subscription for this magazine that i had
for many years.

John

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

This thread has wandered a bit ! Like John I decided to drop my MEW subscription after the poor Issue 300 ! As to HUGE profits from a book,(SOD) myself and 2 others looked at a modern book on Foundry Work but were adivsed by a well known publisher that it was highly unlikely that it would pay ! As to the OP I would offer some training IF he was closed. Noel

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Like Noel, I am in the eastern side of UK, but would be prepared to try to pass on my limited skill, if it were convenient.

In the days where most commercial work is keyboard related, for hobbies and one offs, manual operations are still required. Understanding the basics allows such work to be undertaken.

Howard

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Please sir, a very long time ago I was in a school metalwork classroom ( yes that long ago! ) engaged in horizontally milling a block of steel to a particular size at the request of the teacher, lo & behold we were blessed by a visit from both the principal & vice principal of the technical college that I attended in those days, the principal a small rotund man wearing very thick glasses came to me & said "now you do know that you must never wear a tie in the workshop don't you?" now at this point I must confess I have hated neckties since schooldays when they were part of the uniform, it was a rite of passage at my secondary school that on the last day there one would tie the tie & impale the cap on the school railings, so I peered round the workshop in an exaggerated manner & said " and do you know that of the 40 odd people in this room you are the only one wearing a tie?" he did not have response to my query, these days I only own one tie & that's a clip on reserved for weddings & funerals. Hence the expression, I used to be a top gun but now I'm just a loose cannon.

Bob H

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by choochoo_baloo on 17/03/2022 19:49:06:

Surprisingly I'm struglging to find any sort of night school courses at local colleges, even within a 2hr radius. Granted I live in the West Country…

Edited By choochoo_baloo on 17/03/2022 19:49:42

The West Country is a large area. It would help if you could let us know your local large town, at least.

JA

Edited By JA on 20/03/2022 12:48:06

[Peter Ellis 5Participant @peterellis5]

Sorted ! He PM´d me. He has three within half an hour´s drive.

Cheers

Peter

[Dr. MC BlackParticipant @dr-mcblack73214]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 17/03/2022 19:59:57:

Night classes are a dying breed. Our local collage got rid of its engineering classes years ago. The space is now a trainee hair salon.

There's an evening class "Basic Skills in Engineering" at College of North East London at Enfield. The workshop is equipped with lathes, milling machines, pillar drills as well as hand tools.

There is plenty of space in the workshop for more students and on-site parking.

If anybody is interested, please send me a message off-list so I can ring.

MCB

[jann westParticipant @jannwest71382]

College of North West London (CNWL) also used to have a metalwork program – lathes, mills welding and sheet metal fabrication, etc.

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

Hi John P

Sorry for delay. Another week in hospital.

I was very pleased to publish your cutter grinder articles. The cutter you sent me was certainly very sharp.

I stopped reading Model Engineers’ Workshop just after I left. It was a tradition that previous editors received a fre copy of the magazine for life but sadly that did not happen for me.

It sounds like I am not missing anything. I will probably subscribe now I have a new workshop but would like to know if you still get access to the back issues.

I was thinking of writing some articles for the magazine so would have to have seen some recent issues. Sounds like no 300 would. Be a good start. (What not to write?)

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

More safety tips.

Use a clothes peg, old spring clip type, to keep your collar shut while red hot swarf is flying around, also weak elastic bands around sleeves too stop them flapping around. Finally, a transparent face mask will keep you face covered. Woolly hat or baseball hat is good as well.

[Author]

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