Engineering Shows

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

All,

I'm planning on going to the Midlands show on Saturday. I've only ever been to two engineering shows (Doncaster 2017 & 2018 IIRC) before lockdown. This was before I'd started my 10V, so I'll be looking at things with a slightly different eye now that I have an idea of what's what.

I was wondering if there are any things that you can get at these events that are cheaper than online, or are you better just buying stuff like inserts from say Cutwel and be done with it? Reason I ask is that often you can find things that seem like bargains at events like this, but they turn out to be tat.

So are there any suppliers that regularly attend shows that usually do good deals on inserts or tooling? I'd also like to get an electronic edge finder, but have no idea what to look for or what's a good price for what you're getting.

Thanks!

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

For an electronic edge finder the American firm PEC make 2 versions, I have one with 1/2" body and 0.200" parallel tip.
Only problem you may encounter there is no spring protection on the working tip so you always have to use with care.

Gives consistent indication in use and instructions say use it in a stationary spindle but I admit to using mine at about 200rpm.

Emgee

 

Edited By Emgee on 13/10/2022 14:03:52

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The advantage is that you save postage, often pretty high on yards of metal etc and can see the item before purchase. The days of lots of show bargains ended about twenty years ago but sometimes you get lucky.

BTW a bit late now but if you want a big lump of metal or specific kit or machine you can often email/phone an exhibitor and arrange to collect at the show. Not necessary for general stock items but once Noggin brought along a foot of 3in steel for me so massive saving in postage.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

The aerospace bloke does good files

regards Martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

+1 for the PEC finder

Not that many special deals to be had these days but paper money can sometimes be useful. I tend to think of it as one or two purchases of metal will cover entrance fee and that's it.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Not sure if Chronos will be there but I just had an e mail saying THIS is back in stock may not be high quality

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The cylindrical end like the PEC has is easier to use when toughing the edge of a horizontal bar as exact height is not critical. Pec can be had for £1 less too

Edited By JasonB on 13/10/2022 14:59:34

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

Was a bit more than I intended to spend at the show, but I couldn't say know to the deal on a T63 QCTP from RDG. That's going to be a huge quality of life improvement!

Didn't see Arc or Chronos there…

Very pleasant day all round!

Jay

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Visited the show this morning. Got there for opening time when it was easy to get around, other than for those people standing in the middle of the walkways. By the time I left it was getting a bit packed and the car park was the busiest I have seen it. I do wish stands would make it clear that they only take cash and others would sort out their card machines as some seemed to take an inordinate time trying to take payment. I did buy a couple of things but felt that most of my expected purchases will be made later from home. The displays seemed less than has been in previous years. I do wonder if these shows will continue, be interesting if Crystal Palace or Doncaster make it next year.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Both of those haven't been to shows for several years and you've lost machine dro as well due to staff shortages

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I've always found these shows a bit random – you don't usually know who's doing bargains till you walk about and look at prices. You have to put the time in to find good value. That's why tight and crowded shows like the Midland tend to be tiring. Long queues at the caff as well unless you go in for an early lunch.

I got my milling vice for a nice price at an Olympia show at the last knockings before closing, and I've had a few carbide endmills, slot drills and the like too.

[Anonymous]

I have both the Borite (similar to PEC) and the Soba. (Actually I have 2 Borites: one is untrustworthy since I crashed it – easy to do).

I use the Soba almost universally … there are just a very few instances (which I can't think of offhand!) when the Borite works better for me.

Edited By Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 13/10/2022 18:54:01

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

One problem I'm a tad bitter about is the second hand sellers wanting new money for everything. Spoke to one about a QCTP to be told he wanted as much £ for the post with two holders as I got the brand new one with two standard, one v groove and a parting blade holder with a blade. No contest!

And don't get me started on book sellers… I think this is the first time I've walked away from a show without any!

Hard times all round I know, but if you're paying so much for your second hand stock as to need to charge that much then you have to accept the business simply isn't viable. You'd be better running a bring and buy type sales model and charging a commission on sales.

Jay

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Just got back, I quite enjoyed the show, as did the friend I dragged along. Not too many bargains on the second-hand side of things, and I suffered from a permanent senior moment, knowing that I needed some Delrin, but no idea of what I needed it for…

All round, quite enjoyable.

Jay – I think I may have been stood behind you during your negotiation!

Rob

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

I don't really negotiate much or at all tbh… I could've probably gone back and got a few quid off the second hand one, but no chance of getting it near the value gained from the new one…

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

It's been quite a time since I last went to either of the main London shows and the TEE event – Doncaster was always too far.

I began going in the late sixties when the ME show was over a week long (ten days?) and held in Seymour Hall – that and the following years saw many excellent trade stands which made a trip to London or the Midlands worthwhile but after a few years it gradually began to decline. Hard to see at first if you hadn't been to previous shows but distinctly noticeable

I began to 'see the writing' after the move to 'Ally Pally' when at one event I bought a fair amount of small fastenings from a well known supplier only to realise once home I had actually paid more for them at the show than what I would have done if I had actually sent for them. 'Increasing cost of the stands' was the arbitrary reason given somewhere at some stage which is fair enough I suppose but it marked the decline of 'show bargains' for me. There were the odd occasions of course but less and less as the years moved on

It's the same with the plastic model shows – diminishing numbers of traders due to the costs of travel as well as the stands they need and of course the simpler alternative of Internet sales beginning to make their mark too.

Yes it's nice to see stuff and handle it but the cost has to be realistic – it gets harder to justify the expense of actually going against what one is likely to find worthwhile going for.

The above doesn't take into account the models on display either – another huge decline compared to years gone but that's another similar factor.

Those of us lucky enough to have been to the ones in the past can only mourn the decline – new visitors will see what's there now as the standard – I can only hope it improves for them.

Tug

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 13/10/2022 23:00:00

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by UncouthJ on 13/10/2022 21:18:19:

One problem I'm a tad bitter about is the second hand sellers wanting new money for everything. Spoke to one about a QCTP to be told he wanted as much £ for the post with two holders as I got the brand new one with two standard, one v groove and a parting blade holder with a blade. No contest!

I expect the second hand one was a genuine Dickson which if new would cost several times as much as the far eastern one from RDG so not really a fair contest

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Yes you have to wary of assuming everything is cheaper at a show. I was gutted to miss out on a punch and die set ‘on offer’ from the manufacturer at the Telford plastic model show a few years back (they only had one left and when I decided to go back and get it, it was gone). When I checked online the exact same thing – again from the manufacturer- was around £10 cheaper even with postage.

Is the model engineering hobby in decline – hence fewer display models? No idea, but people were saying that 16 years ago when I got my ML7, yet they seem just as expensive now for the same thing. I doubt many people scrap ML7s, so supply would be pretty constant.

Everything seems to get worse the older people get: My Dad always said attending a Grand Prix at Silverstone was best in the ‘50’s & ‘60’s, yet I only knew it as an ‘enthusiast’ from the ‘80’s & 90’s, and thought it was awesome. These days I wouldn’t go if they paid me.

Ill no doubt enjoy the show, and I’ll hopefully pick up an edge finder (I’ll check online prices first though) and some hexagon stock and some BA fasteners; the last lot I got were a nightmare to get delivered. I did buy my 10V kit from Stuart’s at Doncaster, and IIRC they did give a bit of show discount (can’t remember 100% about that though), and of course no postage to pay which made it a worthwhile purchase, plus it’s somehow nice to attend a show and come home with something.

Thanks all.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by JasonB on 14/10/2022 06:58:58:

Posted by UncouthJ on 13/10/2022 21:18:19:

One problem I'm a tad bitter about is the second hand sellers wanting new money for everything. Spoke to one about a QCTP to be told he wanted as much £ for the post with two holders as I got the brand new one with two standard, one v groove and a parting blade holder with a blade. No contest!

I expect the second hand one was a genuine Dickson which if new would cost several times as much as the far eastern one from RDG so not really a fair contest

Agreed, there re the quality.

You perhaps would not expect a guarantee, per se, with a second hand item such as that, but to not get a warranty with a new item is not acceptable to me. Did you get one?

However, if you went to one particular second hand merchant, you might just look at items that turn up on a well known internet auction site. Generally grossly over-priced, such that if they sell they make a real killing and would generally accept much lower offers, by purchasers who contact them and deal ‘off-line, over the phone’.

Edited By not done it yet on 14/10/2022 07:38:05

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

If you are planning to go do have a chat with the chaps on the SMEE stand. SMEE has been transformed over the pandemic with lots of meeting taking place on zoom as well as in person at Marshall house which makes it very accessible wherever you live. I joined a couple of years back and I can thoroughly recommend it. Brilliant journal, wide range of interests and a very friendly community.
regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 14/10/2022 08:16:41

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

Posted by JasonB on 14/10/2022 06:58:58:

Posted by UncouthJ on 13/10/2022 21:18:19:

One problem I'm a tad bitter about is the second hand sellers wanting new money for everything. Spoke to one about a QCTP to be told he wanted as much £ for the post with two holders as I got the brand new one with two standard, one v groove and a parting blade holder with a blade. No contest!

I expect the second hand one was a genuine Dickson which if new would cost several times as much as the far eastern one from RDG so not really a fair contest

That's a fair point I didn't consider… Although I didn't check the manufacturer, was just told it's off a Colchester. Whether or not it'll come back to haunt me, for my purposes I think the RDG item still made the better purchase. Even if I later decide some of the surfaces want a scraping. As far as recourse goes, I paid on the credit card so can always go that route if they don't play fair in after sales…

Jay

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Most of the tools on dealers stalls are ex industry not Far Eastern hence the price.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Interesting comments on the future of shows, which are only 'local' to a few. I fully understand the need for any trader to make as much as they can to cover the overheads, but surely they should keep their normal business going while they are at a show.

I presume Polly Engineering have all their staff at the show as they are not currently answering their phone or responding to emails!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by UncouthJ on 14/10/2022 08:15:32:

Even if I later decide some of the surfaces want a scraping.

I doubt you will be able to scrape the hardened surface very easily, may not be as hardened as a pucker one but still hardened.

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