EMCO MAXIMAT V10 LATHE

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

I have just taken delivery of the above but it has suffered some damage in transit. The bracket holding the lead screw to the main lathe body at the tailstock end has sheared in two.
Any ideas on replacement parts at all?

Thanks

 

 

 

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

No spares at EMCO Austria, none at EMCO in South Africa either – unlikely to find as a used part since it would probably be attached to a whole lathe…If you are not averse to joining Groups.io you can try the EMCO V10 group – good folk there – https://groups.io/g/emcoV10lathe/topics.

ELse just make a new part – it is quite a simple part- from aluminium, you could even get away without the bronze bush if lazy.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

If this is the item in question …. it looks like ‘a breakage waiting to happen’

https://www.ebay.com/itm/267030797579

MichaelG.

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

I think that’s a part from the power cross feed version but similar concept

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

As said before quite a simple part or there is silver solder or brazing with manganese bronze rods.

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Bernard

 

I think I will try and find a local welder who is capable and prepared to do the job.

Unfortunately I have no skills whatsoever to make such a thing but am very grateful for your advice .

 

MickB

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Joseph

 

Many thanks for that link.The first comment on the site has been posted by the chap who sold the lathe to me!!

Have to feel for him, I don’t think he could have done much more to wrap and protect the lathe but it still didn’t make it undamaged.

I will try locally to see if it is feasible to repair it I think

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Looks like cast iron, if so then arc welding with nickel rods was used to repair a broken cylinder casting on  narrow gauge railway I worked on. You’d need to find someone who already had a box of rods, they are very expensive.

In these modern times I wonder if JBweld would be strong enough. The fractured surfaces should knit back together as CI is very brittle.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Google finds loads of specialist cast iron welders, location will be your problem, they probably won’t be bothered with posting, too much messing for a small job

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Since the back is hollow, Duncan’s suggestion of JBWeld, packed into the hollow, seems promising, and it avoids the possible distortion or cracking (a risk with something as thin-walled even with careful pre-heating) from welding.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Might it be possible to combine JB Weld with inserting a couple of bolts to reinforce?  Glue first, then drill clearance holes.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

These brackets on Emco Machines tend to be a Mazak (or Similar) die-casting. I know on the Emcomat 7 which I had, which was a forerunner of the V10, and on my Maximat Super 11, which was the V10 successor that this was made of Mazak.

Given the thrust exerted on this bracket from the leadscrew a new part made from aluminium would be a much better solution.

Regards

Gray,

[MickB]

On MickB Said:

I think that’s a part from the power cross feed version but similar concept

Indeed it is Mick that’s a V10P part with the extra feed shaft hence the two bearing holes.

Please check the leadscrew is still straight before you have it welded. Also be aware that the casting is very likely to warp during a hot process. Yours has also cracked around the end corner as well.

 

As a general usage point never ever change those gears when they are moving or teeth will come off, nor try to forcing the gears into mesh. Rock the chuck back and forth till they engage, the forks are made of cast alloy and will break if you try to force the levers.

 

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Graham

 

i think you are right. This piece has a number

of hairline cracks around it .

The seller has kindly agreed to take it back and have a new one manufactured.

Many thanks for all your kind responses

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Mick,

The fact that it is covered with hairline cracks means the metal is suffering from Hydrogen Embrittlement. A lot of the early diecast materials suffered with this. It was an accident waiting to happen.

Regards

Gray,

[egaParticipant @ega]

I shall now go and check the corresponding item on my Myford which is now, I guess, quite a bit older than the Emco!

Does hydrogen embrittlement occur through ageing?

[Dave Halford]

On Dave Halford Said:

On MickB Said:

I think that’s a part from the power cross feed version but similar concept

Indeed it is Mick that’s a V10P part with the extra feed shaft hence the two bearing holes.

[…]

Apologies if I complicated the matter

… I was simply trying to illustrate the weakness of the basic design, which is common to both versions.

MichaelG.

[MickBParticipant @mickb25219]

Michael

 

Not at all – I very much appreciated your assistance

 

 

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

According to wikepedia, it called zinc pest, and is caused by lead impurity in the metal. Somewhere I’ve read that after about 1950 manufacturers were aware of the problem and got rid of the lead, so later mazak should be OK.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

In January 2019 Tim Stevens put the embrittlement more eloquently than I can.

“If I can add to the ’embrittlement’ idea:

This effect is known mainly on high tensile steel, and is caused when electroplating (such as zinc). When the steel is put under tension, hydrogen (from the effect of electrolysis) trapped under the plating percolates along the crystal boundaries of the steel, causing serious weakness. Just like a single drop of water can loosen the cohesion of a sugar lump.

If this effect happens in die-casting alloys in damp conditions, it may be because layers of different metals make tiny cells, generating small currents. This then creates the same sort of conditions as in steel. And the hydrogen comes from the water (even without electrolysis) as the metal – aluminium, zinc etc – reacts with moisture. This corrosion is called oxidation – the metal takes oxygen from water, and this leaves spare hydrogen ready to creep between the minute crystals.

The real problem is that neither the makers of model cars, nor those who made carburettors, or dashboard knobs, had any idea that their products would be treasured one hundred years later.

The same sorts of effects will destroy our favourite plastics, soon enough, don’t you worry.

Cheers, Tim “

 

Regards

Gray,

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

According to wikepedia, it called zinc pest, and is caused by lead impurity in the metal. Somewhere I’ve read that after about 1950 manufacturers were aware of the problem and got rid of the lead, so later mazak should be OK.

In an ideal world, yes.   My version of the story goes like this.

• The alloy was developed in the US during the 1930s and it was not realised Lead was a problem.  As Zinc and Lead occur in the same ore, it’s not unusual for a little Lead to creep in.
• Ten to 15 years later, some Mazak items started falling apart, reason unknown.  Found that disintegrating Mazak contained tiny quantities of Lead whilst solid Mazak didn’t.  Rather a lot of Mazak products had been made!
• Thereafter, when it mattered, manufacturers made sure Mazak was Lead free, but for cheapness they didn’t always bother.  Mazak being a cheap material was often used in items like toy cars that weren’t expected to last.
• Bad things happen in foundries!  If Mazak is melted in a crucible previously used to melt lead, it’s contaminated.  Also, in rougher establishments, horny-handed practical men were pretty casual about what they threw into the pot and they didn’t always keep the equipment clean as per instructions.   That’ll be OK they think, I’ll bunk off.  No-one will notice…

So we inherit an unreliable material.  Well made Mazak is good stuff, made badly, it’s not.  Bit of a lottery!

Dave

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

SOD,

I thought the OP said the part was damaged in transit?

Tony

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Your best repair option for the part , is to contact someone that does laser welding, and get them to weld it for you. A good person laser welding can have that back together again with minimal miss alignment and the heat used , will not damage the bushing either.

We get quite a few repairs done with laser welding. Very remarkable what a good person can do with the process.

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