Elliot 3 1/2 dividing head.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

John , it doesnt matter ,i `ll try cutting the gears once i get the broken bush sorted out.

Bazyle, i dont understand the split worm wheel either ,id never heard of one until someone mentioned it, i also dont want to fiddle with it either ,in case i alter the adjustment.

The manual describes 3 screws ,even though they are 5 in the worm wheel. One described as just a screw, another a worm screw and one an eccentric screw.

I think its supposed to do something like this.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 10/12/2016 00:30:07

Edited By mark smith 20 on 10/12/2016 00:32:36

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Ive decided instead of making the whole bush with flange ,that it may be easier to make the flange with a shorter round section and fix it somehow to the original main bushing body. (as the bushing is totally intact minus the broken off flange.)

Anyone have an idea what would be the best way of securing this ?

If i turned down the outside end of the bush to about half thickness and made the flange with a sleeve bored out to mate with the original bush. I could super glue it and ten maybe blind pin it .

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 11:14:33

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 11:14:58

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 11:21:48

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Mark,

Loctite 638 would be my choice

MichaelG.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Hi Michael , thanks and would you use a few  pins as well around the circumference of the joint??

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 11:29:34

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 11:25:26:

Hi Michael , thanks and would you use a few pins as well around the circumference of the joint??

.

Personally, no … 'though I suspect that some others might.

I have been using 638, occasionally, for about 30 years; and have never had a joint of this style fail.

MichaelG.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Thanks Michael . i dont really see much use for pins as its not moving and is just really a bush for the worm shaft.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/12/2016 15:12:40:

SNIP

I have been using 638, occasionally, for about 30 years; and have never had a joint of this style fail.

MichaelG.

Hi Michael ,

Does that mean that, in practice, the shelf life of 638 is 30 years?

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Swarf, Mostly! on 18/12/2016 16:18:55:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/12/2016 15:12:40:

SNIP

I have been using 638, occasionally, for about 30 years; and have never had a joint of this style fail.

MichaelG.

Hi Michael ,

Does that mean that, in practice, the shelf life of 638 is 30 years?

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

.

I have actually used it at work and at home during that time; but the large bottle currently in use is about 30 years old … So, in my experience YES and probably longer.

I have mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating: When I asked Loctite [in the pre-Henkel days] about 'shelf life', the answer was basically "Shelf Life !?! … is it still liquid? … if so, it's fine to use".

My experience confirms this to be a reasonable assessment.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Another point might be to consider whether in its working position it is I contact with the hole it fits in all the way along and whether it needs to be. If it is in a long close fitting hole perhaps the centre of the bush can be relieved and if it is just fitting in the casting wall perhaps the end can be relieved. Either will reduce difficulty of insertion and removal in the future.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Bazyle , it is a very tight fitting bush, but as you say i dont really see why it needs so much contact area in the casting (along its full length). It doesnt spin or anything,its just basically a guide for the worm shaft.

One thing i wondered is why all those thrust washers are pinned to each other and the bushing and outside locking nut ,with oil grooves on one side of each ?? Anyone suggest a reason as they are tiny and fiddly.

In fact im totally confused by them, i mean if they are all pinned to each other and the bushing which doesnt move ,how is the locking nut supposed to turn/tighten  as it also has the two pin holes. The pins arent mentioned in the parts list neither is one of the thrust /oil washers. I only have 3 washers???

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 18:38:10

Edited By mark smith 20 on 18/12/2016 18:54:19

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

No-one have any thoughts about these pins??

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Simply pinned so they do not move at those interfaces. Movement between parts is then restricted to the surfaces/areas where lubrication is afforded.

Edited By not done it yet on 19/12/2016 07:08:52

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

This is my take on it, others may disagree.

It may have been modified by a previous owner or even the shop floor not understanding how it should work. Some washers may be to fill in space. The bearing interfaces are a steel washer against each other, not as you might expect against the cast iron. This is because the CI would wear more quickly and introduce slop. You can see this problem in old lathe cross slide screws bearing against the end plate. (Myford /Drummond)
So 16 needs to be pinned to the shaft, 17 pinned to the bush with the oil groove between. On the outside one is pinned to the bush and one to the nut. The nuts might be pinned together after setting.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Not done yet, makes sense i suppose but still puzzling hard to explain i suppose just from the photos.

Bazyle , interesting idea which thinking about it, it may be right idea, i`ll have to make sure i get the pins in the correct places.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Well i repaired the shattered piece of the bush as described above using en3 steel ,only stuff wide enough i had lying around.

Ive glued

the joint with loctite 638, and ill see what its like when dry. The diameter of the round repair bit is just a touch under the diameter of the original piece ,to make it easier to get out again if needs be. Though its still a tight fit with the section of the original piece .

Just have to find the other screw that fell on the floor and vanished

Edited By mark smith 20 on 21/12/2016 15:10:32

Edited By mark smith 20 on 21/12/2016 15:13:39

Edited By mark smith 20 on 21/12/2016 15:14:51

Edited By mark smith 20 on 21/12/2016 15:15:09

Edited By mark smith 20 on 21/12/2016 15:15:47

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks good, so far, Mark

MichaelG.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Well after making 3 new 26T 16dp gear replacements. Ive finally got the thing back together ,after taking it completely apart.

Just have to figure out how to use it now. Before and after photos.

Only niggle is there is a region of about 10 degrees of a full circle of the spindle that tightens up ,cant figure this out.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 29/12/2016 12:47:33

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Nice job Mark! …a stunning result.

Ed.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Go on! You're kidding us along! The missus went out and bought you a brand spanking new one for crimbo!

Well done, sir!

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Thanks, just need to get it all dirty again

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Wife wants to know if you'll come and clean our utility room? Now that'd be a real challenge…

[Anonymous]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 29/12/2016 12:44:44:

Only niggle is there is a region of about 10 degrees of a full circle of the spindle that tightens up ,cant figure this out.

Looks a darn sight better than mine after 'restoration'!

Dunno about the tight spot, but mine does the same. It disappears if you ease off on worm engagement, but then it's sloppy elsewhere. Probably slightly uneven wear?

Andrew

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by pgk pgk on 29/12/2016 14:19:39:

Wife wants to know if you'll come and clean our utility room? Now that'd be a real challenge…

My wife always goes on about how i spend so much time polishing my tools and machinery but not enough time around the house tidying up.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/12/2016 14:51:31:

Posted by mark smith 20 on 29/12/2016 12:44:44:

Only niggle is there is a region of about 10 degrees of a full circle of the spindle that tightens up ,cant figure this out.

Looks a darn sight better than mine after 'restoration'!

Dunno about the tight spot, but mine does the same. It disappears if you ease off on worm engagement, but then it's sloppy elsewhere. Probably slightly uneven wear?

Andrew

I don`t have the option of disengaging the worm , the only thing is the two nuts on the back side of it (one not the original), it seems strange how its only a few degrees . I can turn the handle lots of times before hitting the stiff area.

It must be an area on the spindle ,bore or worm wheel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 29/12/2016 12:44:44:

Only niggle is there is a region of about 10 degrees of a full circle of the spindle that tightens up ,cant figure this out.

.

Beautiful restoration, Mark

Regarding the 10° tight region … did you solve the mystery of the anti-backlash wormwheel ?

MichaelG.

[Author]

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