elf and safety gone mad

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Best not mention CE (esp. EMC , MACINERY DIRECTIVE ,  AND LOW VOLTAGE) then?

 

Edited By jason udall on 10/01/2015 21:22:46

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Best Not eh!

[Ian L2Participant @ianl2]

I work in industry where the H&S is a joke they are so up there own with "cannot do that your not trained" (I've been doing job 40 years) but the biggest joke and they don't want to listen to me as it will cost them (the management) quite a lot of cash. The workshop is for the most part sheet steel fabrication and welding the overhead crane used to move large bits of steel into position before welding. Joke is all the hand grinders 9" and 12" + hand drills are 240 volt run off mains extension leads.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Phil Whitley on 10/01/2015 20:40:23:

Not being one who could ever resist a rant………………and part P was mentioned……………….

Hi Phil….that was the longest rant that I have ever seen on this forum.

But it was worth reading to the end, as what you said made some very valid points.

Well done!

* Danny M *

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Thanks DannyM, As you might be able to tell, it annoys me a bit!

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

IanL2, I used to do a lot of angle grinders for a local steel structural company, all as you say, 240volt ones, so I know exactly what you mean! It takes me back to going to a fab shop where there was a fault on only to find they were using part of a building steelwork as an earth return for a big welder………………..which had an earth fault on it! The fabbers were complaining about getting shocks off the coathooks when they hung their jackets up. Also remember the sparky I was working with (was still in training) telling me to watch my back as fab shops could get a bit hairy……………..think it was the only time I was given a safety helmet, but couldnt get it over me hair! I looked ridiculous!

Phil

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Again, topics like this make me smile, and, again, show me one of the many reasons i live here now, and not there anymore.

# Building scaffolding – bang some eucalyptus and bamboo together with nails, sorted.

# Building protective hard hats, steel toed boots – What? Sorry?

# Schools buses too full – get the teenagers and older ones to sit on the roof. 11 years living here i have never seen or heard of someone falling off.

# M/C helmet laws – only for the driver/rider, the 3 (that's 4 on a moped) other pillions/passengers – never mind.

# The most popular mopeds are automatics or semis, ie no clutch lever, so pretty ladies can ride holding an umbrella with their left hand shielding them from the sun, or mothers have got a better grip on their infant.

# Household electrical regulations – you are having a laugh, twist wires together and finish off with insulating tape. Or do it yourself, properly.

… I could go on…

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by jason udall on 10/01/2015 21:21:43:

Best not mention CE (esp. EMC , MACINERY DIRECTIVE , AND LOW VOLTAGE) then?

They (like most EU technical directives) are primarily about free movement of goods – an approval gained in one member state applies EU wide (potentially reducing cost and complexity for manufacturers).

Prior to these directives, the differing H&S requirements of members states were an indirect trade barrier.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Part of a presentation on the soon to be enacted directives emc and ce

“The various member states will enforce these national laws with differing enthusiasm”

France will rigorously enforce on all imports
The Germans on all import or locally produced..
The British on all locally produced and imports but be too embarrassed to complain about imported goods

The Spanish ..rules?..que?

Now this can be seen as to why Britain shouldn’t play the euro game…we just don’t understand the rules…
Back to emc..electromagnetic compatability. . Directive says all product placed in market shall be FREE from disturbance and cause no disturbance from /to other conforming produce..

And still our phones must be turned off to prevent interference at various locations..?
Looks like that worked well

[Roger Williams 2Participant @rogerwilliams2]

Hello all, another rant !. During 25 years working for the Forestry Commission as a mechanic, (now retired), I must have repaired , amongst other things, literally thousands of chainsaws. Couple of years before I left, was informed I had to go on a cross cutting course at Husqvarnas , along with some other mechs from the New Forest, just to be able to test run the saws. So, did the course, a free day out. Year later, the FC said they didnt recognise the worth of Husqvarnas training, so was told I had to go to the New Forest ( I worked in Exeter !), for a 3 day course in felling trees. Just to start a saw . If I didnt go , could only run saw without a bar and chain !!!. I didnt go, mentioning the poor taxpayer. Wan****.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Long ago I worked with an enthusiastic birder who had been an overhead crane driver at Llanwern. As I recall his tales of what happens when a craneload of coiled steel escapes, or a red hot sheet fails to reverse through the rollers at 30mph were fairly hair-raising.

Neil

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by jason udall on 11/01/2015 10:24:15:

And still our phones must be turned off to prevent interference at various locations..?
Looks like that worked well

This started in the days of analogue phones when a few people discovered that if you held your phone near a petrol pump it would under register. It was a fault with the pumps not the phones.

The petrol companies introduced the ban on phones on forecourts under the pretence that it was for safety because of a risk of sparks being generated. The myth never went away.

Russell.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Phil,

Love your rants

Pity our politicians/councils are too effing stupid to understand or even realise what damage they have, and continue to do to this once great country.

HSE/Govt have a lot to answer for.

I am astonished that this country puts up with the utter nonsensical pettiness of most of it.

Having lived in France, I know what the reaction would be over there to what is foisted on us – the Guillotine.

The biggest difference between us is that the French government is beholden to the people and knows it, whereas the opposite is mostly true over here.

Geoff – Been wanting to get that off of my chest for years, and this thread has given me the opportunity.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The New World Colonists were so hacked off with our rubbish democracy that they wrote a constitution to keep any future government busybodies at bay within their own society

Took WW1 to give everyone the vote in Britain… and WW2 to give us the NHS etc

One man one vote isn't even 100 years old in Britain yet

[Ian L2Participant @ianl2]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 11/01/2015 11:18:49:

Posted by jason udall on 11/01/2015 10:24:15:

And still our phones must be turned off to prevent interference at various locations..?
Looks like that worked well

This started in the days of analogue phones when a few people discovered that if you held your phone near a petrol pump it would under register. It was a fault with the pumps not the phones.

The petrol companies introduced the ban on phones on forecourts under the pretence that it was for safety because of a risk of sparks being generated. The myth never went away.

Russell.

But the pumps where there before the pumps. Think they saying if dropped could cause spark but even not being used it could fall out of one's pocket so that does not work.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> The New World Colonists were so hacked off with our rubbish democracy that they wrote a constitution to keep any future government busybodies at bay within their own society

Actually, our Govenment wrote their constitutions for them.

Neil

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by OuBallie on 11/01/2015 11:24:49:

Phil,

Love your rants

Pity our politicians/councils are too effing stupid to understand or even realise what damage they have, and continue to do to this once great country.

HSE/Govt have a lot to answer for.

I am astonished that this country puts up with the utter nonsensical pettiness of most of it.

Having lived in France, I know what the reaction would be over there to what is foisted on us – the Guillotine.

The biggest difference between us is that the French government is beholden to the people and knows it, whereas the opposite is mostly true over here.

Geoff – Been wanting to get that off of my chest for years, and this thread has given me the opportunity.

If France is so great why come back to this 'once' Great Britain?

Tony

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Actually, our Government wrote their constitutions for them.

Be sure to let all our American friends know that historical snippet, they'll be really chuffed

Edited By Ady1 on 11/01/2015 13:23:04

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

contrary to popular belief and what certain newspapers suggest, virtually all HSE rlues regulations and legislation has evolved 'reactively' as opposed to 'proactively'. a spate of accidents happen and so new regulations are brought into effect to try and prevent similar occurances.

the health and safety at work act has its roots in much earlier legislation. the 1974 Act has had a marked effect on workplace injuries. fatalaties have reduced by 87% between 1974 and 2014, and non fatal injuries by 77% between 1974 and 2012.

i dont think anyone would climb up a ladder these days without the angle being right and someone at the bottom. people regularly used to fall off ladders as the old law reports will show with death or serious injury resulting. that isnt health and safety gone mad, it's ensuring people at work dont get injured or killed.

you only have to watch 'You've been Framed' on the TV to see the stupid things people do at home.

cheers,

julian

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The HSE use the blunt weapon of inflicting their rules on people who know what they are doing, not just the idiots who don't. A proper apprenticeship should produce a competant responsible person. Unfortunately there are many people with no training at all able to call themselves anything they want and do a shoddy job. The HSE answer is to hit everybody with another layer of regulations not hit the cowboys. I accept that there are idiots who hold indentures but I think this should be addressed during their training making it more rigorous and protecting the function they train for from cowboys.

Mike

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Ady1,

The US Constitution is actually based on the Magna Carter, something which they really took to heart when drawing up their own solid interpretation.

Neil,

Pity they haven't done the same for us!

There's a new series on BBC R4 starting at 0900h this Tuesday about our 'democracy', which should be interesting, and available via iPlayer for listening later on.

Tony,

Was expecting such a question, but 'life' got in the way.

That was our standard question we asked anyone who came to SA and then started criticising the country.

Well, that criticism has turned out to be valid, and something we where either too blind or brain washed to realise.

I just made a statement of fact about the difference between France and Britain.

I was on a training course with Merlin Gerin in Grenoble in the '70s, and HAD to return home to run their SA office, or be out of work. Simple.

I have, however, absolutely no intention of getting into a mindless debate about this, as things are what they are.

Everyone of us would change things in our past if we could, of this I have no doubt.

Right now I'm enjoying being back at the centre of the model engineering fraternity.

It's the mindless politicians and burocrats that get up my nose, big time! Would love to give them all where those meaningless platitudes eminate from.

Geoff – How many have had their lives changed through circumstance not of their own making?

Edit: Response to Ady1

Edited By OuBallie on 11/01/2015 14:09:25

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by julian atkins on 11/01/2015 13:22:57:…the 1974 Act has had a marked effect on workplace injuries. fatalaties have reduced by 87% between 1974 and 2014, and non fatal injuries by 77% between 1974 and 2012.

But in 1974, nearly everyone went to work in a steel mill, colliery, car factory, motorbike factory, brass foundry, stamping plant, machine shop etcetera, — an environment where any mistake could easily be fatal or tear off a limb etc.

In 2012, the few who actually go to work, go to an office or a shop or other "service industry" environments where worst that can happen is a paper cut.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

We had a visit from a young lady, who started taking us to task about a test stand, she wanted railings around it and a better access ladder, she then started on about our Ultra Sonic tanks and started quoting things from the Montreal Protocol and the use of Freon, etc. I told her we were using Aqueus solutions and she knew nothing about them and asked what they were so i told her to research it like I had to years back. We use MICRO at a 2% solution. She said she was coming back in 21 days but we never saw her again!

Clive

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Clive

Don't know your young lady but have met her brother or boyfriend having remove our Methylene Chloride degreaser and replaced it with a energy hungry Aqueous wash plant I had two visit from people checking we were complying with the Montreal Protocol ! As a metal finishing company offering both Cyanide zinc finish and hard chrome we were targeted on a regular basis when the H&S knew given the nature of our work we would be working within and up to date with the regulations, and as I often reminded the inspector that whilst he was wasting his time checking on us the 'back street platers' and there were quite a few in the midlands were not complying and still disposing of effluent down the drain !!!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The most dangerous industry has been and still is farming, and from long before 1974.

Ady, I had brain fade – I was thinking of the various Commonwealth countries who escaped during the 20th Century.

Clive, you have to watch that aqueous stuff – have you seen the drowning statistics?

Harry, I discovered the non-joys of methylene chloride free paint stripper today.

Neil

[Author]

Posts