Electronic water softeners.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Does anyone have an experience of these, do they work or are they just snake oil?
Mark P.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

I'm of the optinion there may be some truth to this but I'm at present not convinced. I prefer the method of a strong magnetic field re-polarising the water molecule with its impurities. It evidentially makes the impurities less likely to adhere to pipes and the insider of kettles. I've used them on electric immersion storage tanks with some success. These are install and forget and they don't need batteries or power supplies to run them.

It a device that's cut into the rising main – can't remember what's their called! It's not the smoke and mirrors clamp-on expensive types the homopathic suppliers sell!

when I remember I'll post a link! (Senior moment!)

Edited By Johnboy25 on 10/01/2016 14:58:59

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Definately snake oil.

Only 3 viable ones:- Polyphosphate , reverse osmosis and ion exchange.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

One useful way to get de-ionised water (which for many purposes is the same thing) is to use a de-humidifier in the shed, garden room, workshop, etc. The water that these produce is effectively condensed steam.

I have used this water for years in the radiators of old cars, and for topping up the batteries of the same, with no ill effects.

Regards, Tim

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 10/01/2016 15:31:41:

The water that these produce is effectively condensed steam.

.

Forgive me asking, Tim …

Wouldn't that make it distilled rather than de-ionised ?

MichaelG.

[Paul BarterParticipant @paulbarter66156]

Hello Not necessarily snake oil. These devices do not soften water, that means removing calcium and magnesium salts from the "hard" water. This process is as said above, this is usually dealt with by , ion exchange systems in domestic water softeners or reverse osmosis in commercial systems.Putting the supply through a fairly strong magnetic field only makes the aforesaid hard water salts, magnesium and calcium carbonate less able to hang onto their mates and make the crystalline deposits that fur up pipes and make the sandy dross in domestic hot water cylinders. These magnetic or electromagnetic devices are water conditioners, the treated water tastes the same and is safe to drink. Proper softened water is a powerful solvent and leaches all sorts of possible hazards from plumbing systems!

regards Paul, who lives in a lovely healthy hard water area!

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

IIR, the ion exchange systems work by swapping the calcium for sodium, hence the need to top them up with salt every so often. The problem with that is that high sodium intake isn't recommended for health reasons. So if you use this kind of softener, it's best used only for non-drinking water.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

For some years I had a water softener installed, quite expensive to fit but it definitely softened the water. It was a resin bead type that was cleaned up by salt and took some hours and made a lot of noise during the night, so much so I re-set the timer to work during the day.

In this new house we have a magnetic attachment wrapped around the rising mains, it's effect I cannot tell as the Southern water draw water from the river Medway and also supply water from deep chalk wells and you can tell it when one day the water lathers well and the next it does not. Another fact is that boiled water sometimes smells like a pond water that is stirred up! Also the taste varies.

The other fact is that people who drink hard water have less heart trouble. We use a filter in the kettle to stop scum forming on tea.. This is quite expensive also, at £4. per month for a filter in the kettle.

I would think that the magnetic type does affect the water to stop it furring up the hot water tank.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 10/01/2016 16:13:40

[VicParticipant @vic]

I've seen a couple of reports on electromagnetic scale reduction and it seems the better units do indeed work. The problem is knowing which one to buy. At the time the best unit tested was about £160, that was about 8-10 years ago.

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

Another link.

**LINK**

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

google inline magnetic scale reducer, and nothing more than fifty quid is worth the money! These are recomended for washing machines, water boilers, instantaneous water heaters, electric showers and the like. If you don't fit them, there are usually scale problems within 2 years or so!

Phil

[JAParticipant @ja]

I live in a very hard water area and have had the same washing machine for over 15 years and the same combi boiler for 13 without any scaling problems.

I see this magnet scale reducer business as a way of removing money from people. The article that Vic's post links to has too many mays, perhapses, possiblies etc to have value, in my oppinion.

JA

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

More or less an open verdict then chaps.
Thanks Mark P.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I remember reading somewhere that the hard water scale only occurs over 50C ? I get scale forming on the hot tap outlet and have once or twice caught the back of my hand on the sharp deposit, I do not see this on any cold tap!

Clive

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I'm in a hard water area and my boiler is 27 years old and we are only recently on our second washing machine, the first wore out mechanically, no need for a softener hear either.

Martin P

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Our washing machine in Cambridge was absolutely riddled with chalk after about 8 years. The water there was very hard – the kettle was forever rattling with bits of loose chalk. Finally the washing machine stopped working with a jammed pump and I thought I'd simply scrape out the chalk and wash it through with some form of descaler. But by that point it was well beyond redemption. All the hoses, manifolds, pump, valves etc were almost solid with the stuff and of course there were parts you couldn't get to and it would have taken many gallons of acid to dissolve them. Until this point I considered Calgon and salt in dishwashers to be the emperor's new clothes.

I've no experience of these devices but many of them are clearly snake oil pedalled by charlatans. If I end up living in a hard water area again I'd probably fit an ion exchange system for the white appliances and boiler. For the last 6 years we have lived where the water is about as soft as is possible to find – that's one successful solution to the problem.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

I live in Brighton and the water is very hard. Most of Brighton&hove is supplied from wells under the South Downs which are chalk hills. We use a filter jug to supply the jug kettle. Although it does fur up, I don’t think its quite as bad as not using the filter jug. Jug kettle cleans out sparkling with a proprietary cleaner – “Oust.” Am thinking of using it in my loco. boiler.

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

I encountered a guy in a pub cellar who was installing electronic/magnetic devices on all the beer fluid lines, claiming they 'made everything better'. He was unable to explain why they made things better. He tried to sell me some. He claimed that you can also fit them on fuel lines in cars, to improve fuel economy and that they had been 'scientifically tested by their makers'. I suggested that if they were that good the big car companies would be fitting them to all their vehicles. My argument did not penetrate. He believed what he was preaching. He reminded me of a wild west peddler selling elixirs.

I don't know anything about these devices, but I can't see a coil of wire producing an 'electronic field' having much effect on water flowing by at 2m/s. Convince me please.

Steve

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

I would say Woo Woo to this.

But
I have seen water divination work.
Have some idea how/what influence is being responded to but can’t prove it

On another note .
Water was considered non magnetic…
Well I have seen footage of water/water containing substances. .supported in intense magnetic field…
So despite the unconvincing “evidence” for these softeners ..we may in years to come know differently.
I will say that a chap at work had a magnetic wrist band…for some woo woo new age health benifit…..funny thing never got swarf stuck to it..
Anyway he felt the benifit…curious I got one from same supplier. .took it apart. ..found no magnets..but there was a void for one…guess the makers found they worked just as well without the expensive magnet and saved a few pennies not fitting them

Edited By jason udall on 10/01/2016 23:39:27

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

I don't know if this correct but I was told by a person who specialised in water treatment for power plants this is in relation to my flash steamer.

Deionised water replaces the various parts extracted from the water from the stainless 321 generator and I should use proper distilled water ideally the tube should be 316L.

[Alex HapgoodParticipant @alexhapgood64562]

This is a little off topic but I thought it worked very much like the magnetic bracelets with or without the magnets. This may be a case of the magic being in the mind. Having arthritis in my knees, I have considerable pain at times. I asked an Orthopedic Surgeon about the value of Glucosamine supplements, his answer was that they had no effect. I felt I had gained some benefit from them. So, to me it didn't matter if the medicine worked on my knee or my mind, as long as it worked. Alex

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Wikipedia says that deionised water has had the ions of nasties removed, e.g. calcium phosphates strontium lead mercury, etc. Distilled water also separates most nasties due to the different and higher boiling temperatures but anything like oily substances with a lower BP will be carried over with the Distilled water. Distillation is the most expensive way of removing the furring up chemicals which can be done cheaper by deonisation.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Collection of rain water off the clubhouse roof will be the cheapest way of obtaining chalk free water for boilers. Should have no trouble with quantity in UK at the moment!

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Steven Vine on 10/01/2016 23:19:11:

I encountered a guy in a pub cellar who was installing electronic/magnetic devices on all the beer fluid lines, claiming they 'made everything better'. He was unable to explain why they made things better. He tried to sell me some. He claimed that you can also fit them on fuel lines in cars, to improve fuel economy and that they had been 'scientifically tested by their makers'. I suggested that if they were that good the big car companies would be fitting them to all their vehicles. My argument did not penetrate. He believed what he was preaching. He reminded me of a wild west peddler selling elixirs.

I don't know anything about these devices, but I can't see a coil of wire producing an 'electronic field' having much effect on water flowing by at 2m/s. Convince me please.

Steve

Steve

This cannot work, it breaks the First Law of Thermodynamics. Essentially what he is selling is a perpetual motion machine – more energy out than you put in. Having met this con at work I could go on at great length about but won't.

On second thoughts I will try to explain. The usual argument is that the added device somehow modifies, how is never explained to any satisfaction, the fuel to improve the the fuel consumption. This means that the same engine is now producing more energy for the same amount of fuel. It can only do this if the calorific value of the fuel has increased. This means that you have added energy to the fuel. Sorry but a magnet, or many other devices offered by such salesmen, cannot add energy to the fuel. If it did where would the energy come from?

JA

Edited By JA on 11/01/2016 09:01:29

Edited By JA on 11/01/2016 09:02:14

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