Electrolysis style rust removal

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I wonder if anyone has any examples or experiences of what this can achieve?

I found one web site which seems to give a decent description of how to go about it.but it's always worth checking elsewhere.

**LINK**

In my case it's a mix of rather light surface rusting and a patina. I'm not sure what it will do to the patina. If nothing I might finish up with dead clean areas where the rust was and patches of patina. There are also graduations on some of the parts. Normally I leave patina alone and just clean up with paraffin and a scotch cloth to remove any crud.

Machine tool dealers generally use paraffin and grade 400 for rust. I've seen some doing it and as they say it doesn't really remove any cast iron. It's not that good on patina which is why I leave it alone. It's a messy job so electrolysis sounds attractive.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Rust removal

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi John,

I came across a youtube video a while back which shows an example of the process. LINK

Regards,
Ed.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I use Ultrasonic cleaning for rust removal now. It works really well with the right fluid.

Regards.

David.

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

David What is the right fluid please ?

Roy

[MetalmuncherParticipant @metalmuncher]

Electrolysis is a great derusting tool to have. I bought a Mamod stream wagon which was pretty rusty and I used electrolysis to clean it up. It also took all the old paint off and a quick rub with a scourer soon had it good enough to repaint. looks like new now. Keith.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Metalmuncher on 17/06/2015 13:34:40:

Electrolysis is a great derusting tool to have. I bought a Mamod stream wagon which was pretty rusty and I used electrolysis to clean it up. It also took all the old paint off and a quick rub with a scourer soon had it good enough to repaint. looks like new now. Keith.

Yes, I've used it as well with very good results. I used a simple battery charger and Washing soda which is cheaply available in supermarkets. Unlike acids it doesn't remove any material and doesn't dull the surface.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

One of the early solutions used for electrolysis removal of rust was molasses. Even soaking in a molasses solution is supposed to dissolve rust. Another is washing soda. Lots of videos on YouTube. See below for one produced by Tubal Cain cleaning small gears.

Paul.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Posted by roy entwistle on 17/06/2015 13:26:26:

David What is the right fluid please ?

Roy

Hi

If you cover the cost of the post I will send you 250ml to try.

David.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

posted by Paul Lousick on 17/06/2015 14:15:35:

One of the early solutions used for electrolysis removal of rust was molasses. Even soaking in a molasses solution is supposed to dissolve rust. Another is washing soda. Lots of videos on YouTube. See below for one produced by Tubal Cain cleaning small gears.

Paul.

Some people in the UK were rather offended when these video's appeared as a few actually knew this one

**LINK**

Looking at various video's they don't really answer the question and some show a rather black result that the above polishes off. I suspect that the lower currents mentioned in the link I posted might as he suggests give better results. More isn't always better and I'd expect it's a bit like anodising al.

On thing I would add to that video is that if light oil is used on the wet and dry it will last a lot longer and give a better finish.

Pity some one wont mention the ultrasonic solution but plain ordinary tepol might work, a laboratory cleaner. It's surprising what it will shift. However

**LINK**

Some use that at around a 50% mix and just soak.

Interesting twist after electrolysis on this one. UK plug and washing soda from Savers?. Also called sugar soap (I think) used to degrease paintwork before repainting. Probably a safer degreaser in an ultra sonic bath too.

**LINK**

John

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Edited By John W1 on 17/06/2015 16:07:02

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I use electrolytic cleaning quite often I find that for me Cathodic action works better than Anodic, I use a car battery and caustic soda. For heavily rusted parts I take them to my old place of employment and get them put through a real hot soak and Anodic cleaner.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I don't think that molasses is easily available in the UK. The bulk of our sugar comes from sugar beet. It's not as sweet as cane sugar and the chemistry is probably different.

There is a rather down to earth video on youtube – I suspect from Oz. Soaking in a variety of liquids including Coke which will clean up some coins to an amazing degree. The winner was apple vinegar followed by white and molasses. Not a huge amount of difference. Another shows white vinegar on rusty sheet steel and reckons it should be diluted – say around 60%. It seemed to fetch it off very quickly.

John

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[VicParticipant @vic]

Some folks advocate citric acid but I have to say it does make steel go a dull grey, not something I'd want in most cases.

[EugeneParticipant @eugene]

Molasses is available in UK from farm supply merchants; it's used as animal feed and many dairy farms have it in bulk tanks. You can also buy it in 5 litre lots from E-bay for under a tenner. Given the usual dilution for de-rusting that should make somewhere between 25 and 50 gallons of de-rusting mixture.

The process works, but its slow and smelly. It doesn't attack the basis metal as do the acidic vinegars.

Ultrasonics work well but the cost of any realistically sized set up is a bit daunting. Fine for small parts but you wouldn't want to be doing a car door panel ….. mega bucks.

A suitable ultrasonic derusting medium would be warm citric acid. I've never tried Boric acid as an ultrasonic deruster but it should work very well … it's really good used warm at about 25 gram / litre on its own. I've cleaned a lot of rusty cast iron woodworking plane bodies with it and had excellent results. 

Eug

Edited By Eugene Molloy on 17/06/2015 18:57:27

Edited By Eugene Molloy on 17/06/2015 18:58:46

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I've used the electrolyitic method with great success, but you have to clean and oil the part as soon as it come out. I rescued a Seal crankshaft that had been stored for many years and it seems quite usable , if slightly stained in places.

Now I usually use 'value' cola, just cut the top off a bottle and leave things in it for several days. The phosphoric acid removes all the rust and leaves any hard parts remaining black – it's like slow-motion jenolite.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The mention of boric acid prompted a vague memory.

I gave a substance that has been used in some rust removers. Oxalic acid. 15min. A tarnished item with slight rust patches near the end that was immersed. It converts rust to a water soluble oxide – especially when the water is hot. Sadly I didn't take a photo first.

The immersion line can be seen up towards the slot for knocking out a morse taper. It's a 1 to 2 jump up sleeve, came in the drawer with my miller. No idea why some one would want one.

I then swilled in hot water and used a kitchen type scotch pad on all of it including the morse taper with hot soapy water.. I suspect the taper shows why some people use wet and dry plus paraffin. Parts are oiled and some always stays there even under rust. There is still some pitting which can't be seen in the shot.

The results look much better than the usual rust remover that can be bought which leaves a very grey surface which is fine if it's to be painted but not much good for machine dials. The usual stuff sold is cement cleaner – dilute hydrochloric acid.

If any one wants to try it I used a saturated solution and it would be best to read the wiki on it. It's odd stuff often in things we eat and is poisonous to a degree and can be absorbed through the skin. I use it as part of a process for oxidising diatoms for viewing under a microscope. With a couple of other chemicals it's a lot safer than literally using boiling sulphuric and nitric acid.

Might be good in an ultrasonic bath but I vaguely remember causing some upset by poring it down the sink – it may stain stainless so would have to be used in glass in a bath.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 17/06/2015 23:26:43

Edited By John W1 on 17/06/2015 23:27:31

Edited By John W1 on 17/06/2015 23:28:16

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK simple test.

4:00 o'clock today, went and hunted this old tap out that lives outside in all weathers just to show this method.

Not a brilliant tap, load of teeth missing but what are there are sharp, it's a special and just over 3/4" in diameter.

So at four o'clock suspend this in some of Mr Toolstation's finest brick and patio cleaner mixed up 50 /50 with water. [ Actually a lot weaker than this as I left the top off last weekend when it was pi$$ing down ]

Fished it out at quarter past seven tonight.

Just as it came out, not washed off yet but you can even read the engraving on the shank.

Quick rub up with some fine scotchbrite.

No electric, no ultrasonic, just a container with some liquid in it that's ready instantly and a bit of string.

So the tap is now delegated to go back on the garden wall until the next demo, It's only been derusted about 4 times already

[paul 1950Participant @paul1950]

brick and patio cleaner !love it

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Also known to us as Hydrocholoric acid or Muratic acid if your flag is the Stars and Stripes.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Don't be frightened though that it's an acid as in it's straight out the container state it's not that strong.

At a 50/50 dilution it's even weaker but still stong enough to get rust off.

In my case it's setup for getting the black scale off laser cut plates and hot rolled bar before finishing.

 

Edited By John Stevenson on 18/06/2015 12:59:07

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Thinking about it

I Could have done with that when I needed to get rid of my old Marina 1.3. Just flushed the whole thing away doen the sink.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Worth knowing but I'll stick to washing soda, kinder to your hands and eyes.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Rusty mild steel, especially if pitted, after the hydrochloric acid and washed will rust like mad in damp weather. It is best to neutralise the acid with a touch of weak caustic soda then water, then dry then brush on phosphoric acid. The grey coating this gives is some protection against futher rust.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Not as cheap as some of the other solutions offered, but not terribly expensive either, and being reusable, a bottle seems to last for years is Evapo-Rust.
It is incredibly effective and completely non-toxic, it can safely be poured down the domestic drain once one is ready to dispose of it nor is it harmful to ones skin.

A pile of rusty castings for a pair of Stuarts, a 10V and 10H, I was given some time back:

The boxbed after a couple hours in Evapo-Rust then a rinse in hot water. It looks like a brand new casting;

Even the pile of rusty nuts and bolts in the top left corner of the first image cleaned up amazingly after a few hours soak, unfortunately I didn't think to take a photo at the time.

Evapo-Rrust is carried by many of the larger hardware stores in Canada, a web search indicates that it can also be obtained in the UK evapo-rust.co.uk

Clive

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

There has been lots of suggestions about different solutions for removing rust, one of which was molasses.

My copy of MEW finally arrived today and I was surprised to read an article about using a 50/50 solution of molasses for removing rust.

Paul.

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