Electric Smart Meters

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by not done it yet on 13/10/2020 12:26:39:

Plus, they don't do economy 7…

Why not, Neil?

Apparently they haven't got one that can switch the heating circuit in and out.

Neil

<Edit> Just seen Gray's post… probably not worth the disruption now as house will be on the market soon, but when I move…

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 13/10/2020 15:58:01

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

When First Utility was taken over By Shell the tariffs available changed markedly with Non Smart Meter Tariffs becoming more expensive and I wanted to continue to enjoy an Economy 7 Non Smart Meter tariff but the only one that was available was a 3 year fixed tariff. I reluctantly took up the 3 year fixed contract but not without complaining bitterly ( I am a grumpy old man ), their attitude was take it or leave it, I wasn’t prepared at that time to trawl around looking for a new supplier, I found most suppliers would only take on new customers with forcing a Smart Meter on them. Having done some limited research on suppliers I am of the opinion if forced to have a Smart Meter then I would probably opt to go with Octopus Energy, if they are still around then, they have some radical ideas which appeal to my philosophy on where energy suppliers should be going. I shall of course be hanging on to my non smart meter for as long as I am able.
Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I have smart meters fitted for both electric and gas, they have caused me no issues and have saved me money and time. The electric meters are fitted where the original meters were which is right at the back of our pantry at floor level under the stone slab and to read the old meters required the pantry to be partially cleared by us to gain access and it was a slide under the shelf on my belly, the money saved would have been the meters being moved at my cost to the outside for better access.

The electronic display shows, particularly my wife, how much it costs us and she can see what not to leave on in the house.

Martin P

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by bsp on 13/10/2020 09:27:56:

The goverment have recently stated that in event of power supply problems, then properties with smart meters can be disconnected if required.

Enough said with the current state of affairs.

bsp

The missing word is remotely – any meter can be disconnected if an engineer visits and they have a statutory right of entry to your home (in the UK) to do so.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Indeed,
They did not openly advertise the fact that smart meters have a contactor that can be used to disconnect the supply remotely. Current law stops the supplier disconnecting you but a change in the law could chang all that. The is also the possibility of a software error, operator error or even a cyber attack disconnecting consumers. Unlikely but not impossible.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

If the fear of disconnection ever does materialise then a Faraday cage could sort that out

Mike

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Mike Poole on 13/10/2020 18:19:37:

If the fear of disconnection ever does materialise then a Faraday cage could sort that out

Mike

Surely the smart meter talks to the supply company through the mains?

I may be wrong and it would not work for gas.

JA

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I believe it connects using a private mobile phone type network.

Mike

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

My smart meter stopped working so I phoned my supplier and explained the unit had failed I was then told i was not entitled to a new one, I asked why and in fewer words they said they had fulfilled their obligation to fit one !

H

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 13/10/2020 18:37:12:

My smart meter stopped working so I phoned my supplier and explained the unit had failed I was then told i was not entitled to a new one, I asked why and in fewer words they said they had fulfilled their obligation to fit one !

H

So how can they bill you if the meter has actually failed?

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 13/10/2020 17:23:06:they have a statutory right of entry to your home (in the UK) to do so.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret your statement, Nick, but it is my belief that, under the Rights of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954,:

"(1) No right of entry to which this Act applies shall be exercisable in respect of any premises except—

(a)with consent given by or on behalf of the occupier of the premises, or

(b)under the authority of a warrant granted under the next following section:

Provided that this subsection shall not apply where entry is required in a case of emergency."

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

There are a lot of misunderstandings about smart meters.

I suspect that a lot of people think the ‘In home display’ is the smart meter, when the actual gas or electricity meter is the ‘smart meter’.

I don’t know why the TV adverts are allowed since they suggest that the smart meter will save you money, when the only way you will save money is if you change your own behaviour by reacting to the information on the display.

The possible savings and advantages are with the suppliers and possibly network operators, though some of the suggested benefits will not happen because of security concerns and the use of data for individual properties.

One of the possible benefits would be to allow network operators to remotely switch on and off certain appliances to manage the electricity network if or when we all have electric cars and electric heating.

I have found this website which seems to have a lot of impartial (I think) information:

**LINK**

Stuart

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 13/10/2020 19:42:45

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 13/10/2020 19:43:08

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

I have been chased by several of the electric companies to fit a smart meter. It appears their Sales teams do not realise that they do not (as yet apparently) have smart meters that will work on 3 phase.

Colin

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by not done it yet on 13/10/2020 19:03:06:

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 13/10/2020 18:37:12:

My smart meter stopped working so I phoned my supplier and explained the unit had failed I was then told i was not entitled to a new one, I asked why and in fewer words they said they had fulfilled their obligation to fit one !

H

So how can they bill you if the meter has actually failed?

NDIY I would have thought a smart person like yourself would know the answer to that, either I submit reading via internet or the send someone round to read meter

H

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I agreed to have smart meters. They fitted the electricity meter fine, but when they came to fit the gas meter they found that the bracket in the box in the wall had damage to one of the lugs, not the one that holds it up, one that is supposed to hold a security seal. 'You'll have to get the distribution company to sort that out' he says, so I ring them. 'Nothing to do with us' was the reply, get on to your supplier. Now in stalemate, and 'procedures' say that I can't have a smart electric and a dumb gas meter.

The one certainty is that I am not paying to have the bracket fixed, whoever fitted the meter broke it, they can fix it. Every month I get an email, read the meters and send it in, easy peasy and I get a prompt to keep track of it.

I believe the latest meters are universal and you don't need a new one when you change supplier. Sooner or later they will make it so you pay more of you don't have smart meters, that's when Ill get really wound up to find out whose responsibility it is. Perhaps before that the ridiculous all electric promise will have come to pass. Was that a pig that just flew past the window?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Simple? How can anyone read the meter if it is not working? Ie. not recording your leccy usage? All the meters I have ever come across that have stopped working haven’t shown any increased readings. Yours must be the first

Perhaps SS5’s post just above applies to you? If it was not working, I would certainly not be bothering to take readings. My meter (non-smart type) is working but I do occasionally check that it is recording in the correct ball park. I also have had a digital device, which gives me an (almost) instantaneous indication of power usage, for likely the best part of ten years. My wife ignores it, so a total waste of effort to reduce leccy use by her, while I have a good idea of where leccy is being wasted. Plenty of power-used meters around the place.

Back to you: Has it really failed, or not?

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I know there are folk with electric vehicles that use one of the tariffs that periodically actually pays the user for using surplus electricty (sporadic and you have to be an enthusiast to keep track) or a dirt cheap tariff between midnight and 3am. They are winners until gov decides to tax car electricity in some way.

What i fail to understand is the apparent committment for everyone to have a smart meter when rural Britain has a lousy mobile phone coverage and I doubt that the DCC network is going to fill that gap anytime soon.

What happens with smart meters in basements and hidden in deep cupboards in the bowels of older dense brickwork buildings?

pgk

[VicParticipant @vic]

I read some time ago that smart meters cost around £200 each, so a total of at least £400 per dual fuel household. The cost of which is of course passed on to customers in the form of increased bills. I personally think anyone that actually wants them should pay for the cost up front if they’re that confident it’s going to save them money.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Vic on 13/10/2020 23:38:27:

I read some time ago that smart meters cost around £200 each, so a total of at least £400 per dual fuel household. The cost of which is of course passed on to customers in the form of increased bills. I personally think anyone that actually wants them should pay for the cost up front if they’re that confident it’s going to save them money.

People save money, not smart meters. Smart meters allow suppliers to make more money by higher charges when their costs are higher (they already allow for this when setting unit prices). That should eventually lead to cheaper cost of electricity generation, but only with a change in people's use of that resource (until some new white goods can be turned off remotely at peak usage periods – beyond the smart meter).

For example, freezers could be all switched off for a couple of hours at a time, with no real saving of power to the householder (it will have to work harder/longer when the power is restored). My wife will not change her habit of cooking during peak power periods – not in a month of Sundays. The only way I can ameliorate that trait is to instal a battery to power the cooker in those periods (yes, I have the battery capacity – 15kWh – but not yet the means to deliver the heavy power supply at the right time).

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Very interesting replies here ,thanks. I am holding out not having the smart meter fitted but looks likely that I will be put on the higher tariff if I don't conform, in my opinion energy is good value for money so if I pay a bit more I will cut down on a over priced cup of coffee in town and that will pay for the differences.

Bob

I

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

**LINK**

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Very interesting link from Anthony code of practice the right to refuse 2013.

Edited By BOB BLACKSHAW on 14/10/2020 11:25:22

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Bob

It may be interesting, but it seems to me to be scaremongering and contains inaccuracies.

I think this site gives a more accurate and factual view:

**LINK**

The suppliers are obliged by the government ( via Ofgem, the regulator) as part of their licence conditions to ‘take all reasonable steps’ to fit smart meters to all customers by the end of 2020.

You are not compelled to have one installed.

See this from the Ofgem website:

**LINK**

Some of the correspondence from suppliers suggests you must have one, but that is not the case. On the other hand, they are permitted to oblige you to have one to get the best tariff. I have had an email from my supplier, Eon which says I should phone them if I don’t want one. I won’t be doing that.

Stuart

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

I'll offer up my experiences with various energy suppliers and sm's

Prior to moving house 3 yrs ago, we were staunch BG customers( well I did work for them for over 30 yrs..) had smart meters fitted and had no issues…,

To 2017, moved house to a brand new estate, all properties were supplied by E-On and had smart meters fitted.

We stayed with E-On until we were acosted approached by Scottish Power in the Metro Centre one day…..They assured us lower bills…Ok, sign me up….So we left E-On for SP…..

Some time later, SP asked if we wanted a smart meter for each utility, told them they were already installed 'Oh, we cant read them' came the reply..

After being with SP for the year, conscious of the need to look for cheap deals, we returned to E-On as provider.

Sad thing is, although their meters are installed here, we still have to return readings to them on a quarterley basis..

So somewhere along the way, the system has fallen over….not working as it should..E-On's customer database isnt that clever to recognise a returning customer with smart meters already at the address…..

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

I have been reading through this post since our Smart Meter went off-line on the same day as this thread was started.

I have to admit I did consider some of the posts were a little sceptical verging on paranoia. That was until the meter decided to come back on-line late last night, but Gas only.

The total consumption for yesterday was £1.45, this is for 35.42 kWh used. This gives a unit cost of 4.093p per kWh.

The Tariff shown on the device is 3.36p per kWh, so as a calculator the multiplication is off.

My Tariff for Gas is 3.207p per kWh. This morning first thing and using the same maths we have 14.45p per kWh, currently we are at 10.61p. If it is malfunctioning then how long has it been like this, and how can one be sure of its accuracy in the actual consumption used.

Obviously as a meter these things are useless, and I have to admit the scepticism is well founded. Small wonder I have a preference for all things mechanical.

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 15/10/2020 12:08:26

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