Edith

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was interested to see the article on 'Edith' in ME,. I would be equally interested to see the original article, especially if it describes the making of the hull.

My recollection is that the technique is to make a wooden former, wax it, lay up the hull using strips of paper, then sand it to a fine finish and waterproof with shellac. Once off the former stiffening is added internally. Gives a very light, strong result and much less hassle than glassfibre, if less durable.

Question is, can anyone offer an off-the-shelf source of suitable shellac varnish?

Neil

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

I don't know anything about Edith. Is it a reprint or a new model?

From your description, I seem to recall that this technique was known as gummed paper strip construction. In days gone by, you could buy rolls of brown paper strip gummed on one side. Pas partout? Perhaps papier mache could be used.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by steamdave on 07/07/2014 11:44:49:

 

. Pas partout?

.

Oui  … or more correctly passepartout

… roughly translates to "does for everything"

 

As for the Shellac; it might be better to purchase it as powder or flakes [always useful for "wax chucks" etc.]

… To make varnish, just dissolve "to taste" in Meths.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/07/2014 11:56:22

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Many (many) decades ago I made a hull over a former using papier-mâché, I used paint not varnish though.

stopping the water getting into the paper etc was too much of a problem and altogether it was not a long term success.

If you want to have a go, Axminster tools is a good place for things like shellac, very helpful people.

Edited By V8Eng on 07/07/2014 11:59:50

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Smith & Rogers do various ready mixed Shelac based varnishes/Polishes, they also do the flackes so you can cut it with meths to the consistancy you want.

Though I wonder if some of the more modern Acrylic finished would be a better option now as the shelac is always suseptable to solvents. Something like S&R's Aquacote that I use a lot on wood and is actually a floor finish is very durable

J

 

Edited By JasonB on 07/07/2014 12:14:58

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This looks a reasonable price for good quality brown Gummed Paper tape.

MichaelG.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

A possible alternative to shellac is to use a latex adhesive – similar to Copydex – but get it from a flooring supplies dealer. The one I'm familiar with is "Styccobond F1", not absolutely sure of the spelling but probably near enough to find it on t'internet. I was "introduced" to this by an artist who was making big paper sculptures/puppets for use out doors and the objects were expected to last for at least 6 weeks exposed to the elements. Price wise the flooring grade adhesive is about the same price per 5 litres as a small can of the "domestic" variety. The scuptures consisted of a core of wire mesh, with torn newspaper applied either side using the latex, and built up in layers to what ever was deemed necessary for handling etc. The final paper layers were then given a couple of overall coats of the latex to seal them, in effect making a rubber surface. Decoration was using normal household paints and artists acrylics which dry waterproof.

Model boat hulls don't usually spend a great deal of their lives in contact with water surprisingly, perhaps an hour or so at the most when they are actually being sailed. Most of the time they are on dry land being worked on or admired.

Keith

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't forget to varnish the inside too for the water that comes up the prop tube when you forget to renew the vaseline&oil mix in the tube.

Shellac is the active ingredient of French Polish so available from woodworking and furniture specialists. If you are being 'retro' it has to be flour and water for the paste on a former built with Cascamite (also still available) or even hot cow hide glue (amazingly not yet banned by some HSE freak).

Edited By Bazyle on 07/07/2014 13:17:29

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'd forgotten about gummed paper.

I think the thing about shellac is it has a high affinity for cellulose (paper) and it soaks in and waterproofs the structure right through, rather than on the surface like a paint or varnish. I used to use casacamite quite a bit as a boy.

I have some 'liquid' hide glue I bought to repair a violin. Warning: if it goes thick, don't warm up liquid hide glue in the microwave…

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

But Neil's original post mentioned less hassle than glass fibre. I would add more child friendly, fewer allergens as the alcohol solvent for shellac is less irritating than organic solvents, low cost, compatible with 3rd world materials availability, biodegradable.

Generally a grandpa's friend in the face of "I want….." that normally means a plastic five minute wonder for half a weeks pension.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Re glue…
I have had some success using pva glue…glue..hardener ..sealer…also child friendly
Even water proof ish when dry.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hmm. Making a fibreglass lampshade was the most miserable of all the activities I did at school with the exception of rugby on a wet day… my usual boatmaking material is balsa with a doped tissue covering, I suppose that's a bit retro as well!

To be honest, I'm making a small railway layout, and when it came to the landscaping I didn't want the weight of plaster… then there was some wallpaper that needed stripping. Ri[pping off the vivyl coating was tedious, but steam stripping the backing paper soon gave me a bowlful of very soft, adhesive coated raw material to pile over my cardboard landscape. It's come out strong light and a little flexible. I suppose that is what made me click with the idea of a paper hull.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

Nothing wrong with papier mâché, provided you keep the finished product dry.

To give it more Hi-Tech credibility, we referred to it as CFRG

… [ Cellulose Fibre Reinforced Glue ]

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

CFRG? I'm having trouble making firmly attached realistic trees and credible reproduction assorted plants. Thst's the tyrouble with being a botanist, just splashing on glue and tossing on a bag of flock isn't good enough, I need a mixture of overgrazed and undergrazed heathland on my sandy soils!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

Slightly off-topic, but; given your Astronomical interests, this might "float your boat"

[beauty is in the eye of the beholder]

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Buckminster Fuller would be impressed! A couple of sheets of 1/4" WPBP ply might have worked out cheaper and quicker

Neil

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

If someone could chuck in a couple of buckyballs we could have a kick about before supper.

Rik

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