Eccentricity / Run-Out

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

dUPDATE

MrsG was suffering badly with her Arthritis, so didn't feel up to going shopping for a new Washing Machine.

Against our better judgement; we decided to run one more wash in the Miele.

When it got to the Rinse cycle, it sounded remarkably like a Traction Engine puffing along the road.

Similar noise in the Spin cycle [which was, thankfully, only set to 400rpm, not 1400]

… then graunch & BANG !!

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Here is the failure mode:

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That's a view into the outer drum, showing what remains of a 'spider-leg' [one of three] that should be supporting the inner drum. … Something tells me that our washing liquids might not be compatible with Miele's alloy.

MichaelG.

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For info. The machine [W504] is actually twelve years old … Tempus Fugit !!

Bearings, belt, motor, etc. are still in excellent condition.

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

I sometimes wonder about galvanic erosion due to the odd bits of metal debris that falls out of pockets etc.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Brian, that and the fact that some parts are stainless steel bolted to bits of ? aluminium alloy, with the odd bit of brass thrown in just for luck, all OK while its dry, but eventually moisture gets in, along with the chemicals in the soap powder.

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 06/10/2017 17:17:23:

Quatermass and he Thing from the Washing Machine.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Showing your age now Neil, or did your dad tell you about Quatermass😜

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Interesting thread – We had a Bosch machine which we eventually dumped because one arm of the (apparently monkey-metal) drum support spider broke, resulting in various graunching noises. This was replaced with a Whirlpool machine, but now we seem to have another problem. I don't want to hijack the thread, but has anyone anything to say about the economy of washing machines.

Both the Bosch and the Whirlpool were supposed to be 'economic', but both use(d) large amounts of water. (we have our own deep freshwater well, so I can easily keep track of what we use – we have to keep an eye on it because it is possible to pump it dry under some circumstances).

The Whirlpool machine is terrible – we use what is supposed to be the most economic (in terms of water use) cycle, and by my measurements, the thing uses about 400 litres of water for one wash – both machines seem to have multiple rinse/dry cycles, which seems to be where the water is going. It is not easy to actually decide what is going on – there is no external indicator showing 'current function' in detail, the instruction manuals are useless, so the only way is to sit and watch the damn thing – and it still isn't obvious – life is far too short for that.

I did suspect at one point that the supply pressure was too low, but our water pressure is regulated to 6 bar, and easily maintains that. Apparently most European countries supplies should operate at between 4 to 6 bar, so I don't think that is a factor.

I have read about machines using bubble technology (as opposed to simply swilling water in), but I haven't (yet) found any info on these machines. We want to junk the crap we have now, and since we have to buy another, I want to get a machine which does operate economically, both electricity and water, as opposed to the incredible stuff the advertisements claim.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by An Other on 07/10/2017 18:56:34:

… I don't want to hijack the thread, but has anyone anything to say about the economy of washing machines.

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Feel free

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

We have our own well, so economy of water and power are important. As said instructions are not good, far worse than imported lathes. I have found that a lot of " cycles" can be cut out, eg. pre-wash, extra spin etc. How this is done must vary with each maker and is never obvious. Most machines are made by the same company. Not much help I know.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Salvage from the Miele includes a rather useful looking motor:

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With a speed-range like that ^^^ my first thought is that it would be useful on an 'overhead' for the lathe, to drive a milling/drilling spindle. … Alternative suggestions [probably] welcome.

MichaelG.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Have a look at these videos Michael, you will find them interesting, re Miele and using the motors for other things.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+post+apocalyptic+inventor

Phil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Phil

… up to my ears in other things at the moment, but will watch tonight.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I think the most economic as far as water goes is the machines made by Simson in Australia, it even has a cycle to recycle the water for part of the wash.

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by An Other on 07/10/2017 18:56:34:

Interesting thread – We had a Bosch machine which we eventually dumped because one arm of the (apparently monkey-metal) drum support spider broke, resulting in various graunching noises. This was replaced with a Whirlpool machine, but now we seem to have another problem. I don't want to hijack the thread, but has anyone anything to say about the economy of washing machines.

Both the Bosch and the Whirlpool were supposed to be 'economic', but both use(d) large amounts of water. (we have our own deep freshwater well, so I can easily keep track of what we use – we have to keep an eye on it because it is possible to pump it dry under some circumstances).

The Whirlpool machine is terrible – we use what is supposed to be the most economic (in terms of water use) cycle, and by my measurements, the thing uses about 400 litres of water for one wash – both machines seem to have multiple rinse/dry cycles, which seems to be where the water is going. It is not easy to actually decide what is going on – there is no external indicator showing 'current function' in detail, the instruction manuals are useless, so the only way is to sit and watch the damn thing – and it still isn't obvious – life is far too short for that.

I did suspect at one point that the supply pressure was too low, but our water pressure is regulated to 6 bar, and easily maintains that. Apparently most European countries supplies should operate at between 4 to 6 bar, so I don't think that is a factor.

I have read about machines using bubble technology (as opposed to simply swilling water in), but I haven't (yet) found any info on these machines. We want to junk the crap we have now, and since we have to buy another, I want to get a machine which does operate economically, both electricity and water, as opposed to the incredible stuff the advertisements claim.

Funnily enough I found the manual for our Swan SW4010W the other day.

Efficiency rating A+++

Cotton 60C 8kg load, 1400rpm is 0.93 kwh and 54 litres, 228 minutes.

40C, 4kg load is 0.75kwh and 45 litres, 222 minutes.

Off mode power consumption is 0.5W, on mode 1W.

Washing 59 dB, spinning 76/78 dB ()depending on speed).

Washes really well, is actually easy to understand – choose program than change temperature if you want.

As you can see the downside of excellent performance is long cycles!

I thought that's impressive for a <£200 machine!

Neil

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Michael G – Thanks for your gracious permission.

Gordon W – your post sums up my problems exactly – be blowed if I can find out how to set our machine with minimum cycles. The thing seems to have about 5 preset programs, all of which (as SWMBO says) are 'unreasonable', and all of which seem to use enormous amounts of water. She says none of them do what she actually wants it do. (I said do them by hand, but that didn't get me any brownie points)

Neil W – you hit a point I missed – the sheer time of these cycles – on the (apparently) most economic cycle of our machine, it takes 2 hours and 10 minutes ( and a lot of water). I haven't dared measure the power consumption yet. I really cannot see how it can be called economic.

Ian SC – I have never heard of Simson, but I'll do a bit of online searching tonight – export might be a problem. Thanks for the tip.

On the whole, I am beginning to think the answer will be to just use the mechanical guts of the machine, and build my own PIC controller, so I can decide what the damn thing will do. I built a controller for our well pumping system which has been working well for 3 years now, so hopefully it won't be impossible (just unnecessary, it seems to me .

edit for post-post typos

 

Edited By An Other on 08/10/2017 17:53:10

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Re the outrageously expensive Miele with 10 year extended warranty linked to earlier in this thread.

I bought one!

First impressions after bedding yesterday and clothes today are that is very quiet, smooth and does a good job. According to the book its marginally more economical on water and power than the Swan Neil has. Faster and quieter tho' as the full fat cycles vary from about 140 to 180 minutes and its 50 dB washing, 74 dB spinning although mine seems much quieter than that. Albeit with a part load.

Nearly £1,000 is a lunatic price, especially as its smaller brother, superficially the same, of only 7 kg capacity can be found for £700 ish. But with the 10 year parts and labour warranty thrown in cost comes out to very similar over 10 years to paying repair insurance for a higher end, £600 ish, machine from other makes. I figure that an offer like that means Miele are pretty confident that it will be reliable. Just hope that the engineering really is what you'd expect for a grand. The alloy spider failing on the machine MichealG has is certainly not what one would expect. The correct material compositions for this sort of thing were sorted out in the flying boat era so using a material that can fail in this application is totally unacceptable. OK on a cheap machine not expected to last more than 3 or 4 years where a few pence cheaper and easier casting counts for more than very long life.

Machine being replaced was £230 ish Whirlpool from a refurb centre. 11 years or so old and it had had reached its statutory fixed 4 times limit so having gotten rather noisy and developed an occasional water leak it was time for it to go. For once I've not even bothered to reduce it to produce.

Clive.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive Foster on 08/10/2017 18:06:45:

Just hope that the engineering really is what you'd expect for a grand. The alloy spider failing on the machine MichealG has is certainly not what one would expect. The correct material compositions for this sort of thing were sorted out in the flying boat era so using a material that can fail in this application is totally unacceptable.

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Assuming that Miele's standards remain as they were; I think you can have confidence in the general engineering, Clive.

… Everything on ours was nicely put-together, and the cast iron weights are a work of art !

The use of alloy for the spider is certainly questionable: That would seem an ideal place to employ a good 'engineering plastic'.

MichaelG.

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