eBay P&P (Barrack Room Lawyer)

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Under English case law, the buyer is entitled to a refund of any margin made by the seller on the P&P charge, unless the margin is disclosed before the sale is completed. eBay sellers beware!

Steve

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

[Cobbs CobbledickParticipant @cobbscobbledick49618]

To be honest, I think you'd be a bit daft to not look at the P+P before buying and deciding for yourself if it was or wasn't reasonable. The question of what is reasonable is open to debate in any case and I think you'd be hard pressed to make any legal claim unless the charges were totally and transparently over the top, in which case more fool you for paying them in the first place – and why pick out ebay in particular? I've walked away from many online shops that are totally independent because I've thought it a bit steep to be charged £5 or more for p+p on an item that only weighs a few ounces.

Another case where common sense on the part of the buyer is called for…

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

How would they enforce or obtain it? How would they even know the seller had made a margin on P&P? the charge is for post and packing, and the seller may charge what they like for packing, up to the maximum stated in the advert. Please quote the case law involved!

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

The postage cost component of the P/P charge is easy to check but how does one check the cost of packing?

It's not just the cost of materials but also the labour time to doing it which, with

complicated, awkwardly shaped or very delicate items, can be quite extensive.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

They don't call it rip-off-Britain for nothing!

Is there also a law which states that Ebay and Paypal (both Google companies) aren't really entitled to take 10% or so of the cost of P&P from the seller?

As stated above the packaging costs money, as does the label if you buy it through Paypal and then there's the paper and toner/ink to print the label. It all adds up when you're a private individual selling stuff just to get by.

Probably why a lot of sellers now charge extra for items and offer so-called free deilvery.

Edited By Ed Duffner on 21/08/2016 18:36:18

[Cobbs CobbledickParticipant @cobbscobbledick49618]

Bottom line – if you don't like the bottom line, there's no compulsion to buy…

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Since fees were added to postage the easiest thing to do with many things is to offer free postage and charge enough to cover it or find out what it will cost and charge that plus a bit for materials.

I often have a few things on ebay and that's what I do. Lots of others do now as well. Once it was just paypal fees on postage. Ebay seem to want more to offer free postage but either way now it's more profit for them.

The part I don't like which often crops up – free postage and no refund for buying more than one when their could be. Maybe there will be a case on that aspect. Some sellers will make a refund if asked but since free postage prevents their star rating from being messed up many don't now. The other one is next day at some stupid price such as £99. I always look for sellers that use 1st class post.

John

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[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Or sellers who offer next day delivery but don`t send for a week!

One thing ive also experience a few times is there are a few places that advertise on here that sell on ebay also and if you order through ebay they often send faster as they don`t want the adverse feedback .

That said out of the hundreds of transaction ive done on ebay i have never left anyone negative feedback which im quite proud of,despite having some right ******* buyers and sellers.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It takes me at least half an hour to wrap a parcel and walk to the post Office and send a parcel. Even at minimum wage that's an extra £3.50 without looking at the packing materials.

the inflated postage scam is more or less over now as fees are on both item and postage costs.

Oh yes – you need to add the ebay % to the valid P&P costs.

Neil

[Alan GirvanParticipant @alangirvan88520]

Bought a sewing machine light at £3.60 from China postage free. Priced a rotary broaching tool 9mm from the US. Tool was £30 – postage £70. Does this seem like a rip off too!

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If an item is Buy it Now and includes excessive postage but is 5 minutes from you it isn't possible not to pay the postage. and collect it unless nobody wants it and there is time to negotiate with the seller. It stays available for someone else to BIN.
Also I find ebay delays seller contact details until after you have paid with paypal to discourage collection.

One appreciative seller on a collection actually gave me back a tenner for saving him some of the fees.

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

Expansion tank for £30 from Wiltshire delivered free in two and a half days to the wild west highlands of Scotland, Royal Mail, local plumber told me they would charge £60 to £70, nice to have honest friends.

Remember buyer beware.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Phil Whitley on 21/08/2016 18:19:15:

Please quote the case law involved!

.

Steve,

+1 on Phil's request..

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Some people don't want people collecting things. I can understand that.

There are number of sellers in the USA that list items with FedEx etc postage costs on Ebay UK. No idea why. Must have more money than sense if they have to pay to list but it might be one single charge for world wide. Go to the USA site and they will be seen there as well along with some that use USPS.

From another thread and looking at past Ebay listings some one has bought a boring head that was listed on ebay but sold out of it. It pays to be extremely careful when buying this way. I'm not sure I would trust any stuff off the seller. Doesn't need to be dishonest. They just buys stuff and sell it – not check it.

John

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[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Rip off Britain, you want to try France. Its cheaper to buy tools from the UK, pay postage than it is to buy the same tool in France either from the shop or E-bay. And don't start on the price / availability of Amazon Kindle books if you live outside the UK.
BobH

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

As sean connery said in the untouchables. "If you don't like the goods in the shop window, don't part with your cash"

Michael w

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

The charges applied by e-bay, paypal etc are only in line with those of old-fashioned auction houses and banks, surely?

Cheers, Tim

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 22/08/2016 09:46:40:

The charges applied by e-bay, paypal etc are only in line with those of old-fashioned auction houses and banks, surely?

Cheers, Tim

There are totally different ebay charges for business sellers and paypal charges are very probably based on people using a credit card to buy goods so have to cover the charges they pay for that and still make a profit.

I usually use a debit card which means that they make more profit than if I used a credit card. I sometimes use my credit card to pay as well and also sometimes for any mail order items as it offers me a lot more protection.

On mail order I also use paypal if it's available due to the protection it offers. Also for private sales for the same reason and I will only use a for good transfer what ever the seller says about their honesty. I'll even offer to cover the fees – which some still wont accept. I have had couple of mail order problems – goods not arriving and paypal have sorted both out. I've also bought junk a couple of times and either paypal or ebay have sorted it out. Credit card companies will too. The item does have to be returned and sometimes there are arguments about who pays for that. Actually they have to but there is a get out for items sold via an auction. Flaw in the law as I see it.

John

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[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just to raise this again, today I received new brushes to resurrect the washing machine. I paid extra for Royal Mail 24 which would have had the brushes here on Friday (ordered Wednesday evening) but they were sent Royal Mail 48, which doesn't include weekends so three extra days without the machine.

Hardly life and death – although I have been threatened with terrible things if I don't get the machine working, such as having to buy a new one

Am I annoyed? Not with eBay, but yes with the seller for either incompetence or a blatant rip-off.

Neil

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/12/2016 14:11:51:

Am I annoyed? Not with eBay, but yes with the seller for either incompetence or a blatant rip-off.

Neil

Is that the biggest rip-off since King Kong had a back, sack and crack? (T'was on the radio the other day!)

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

There seems to be a generally sanguine approach by sellers, on this forum, to 'topping up' postal charges to cover packing (tatty used bubble wrap and re-used boxes!) and labour (wrap a bit of sticky tape and add a label). As a buyer, the 'you shouldn't buy it, if you don't like the P&P' dictum is only relevant if you know the weight and packaging needed. Example – recent purchase P&P £15.00, item turned up 6 days after payment, delivered by the much loved H….s. The item didn't work and it was returned, extremely well packed and delivered by DPD – a service which pre-informs you of your 1 hour delivery slot and updates on the day – cost £10.00 – picked up on Monday afternoon delivered on Tuesday lunchtime!! Rip-off Britain – in spades!

The contributor who says, proudly, that he has never left negative feedback might care to consider those other future buyers who get stuck with poor service , over-charging, misdescription etc.

The only safeguard for the buyer is HONESTLY assessed feedback.!

rgds

Bill

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Cornish Jack on 12/12/2016 15:01:12:

The only safeguard for the buyer is HONESTLY assessed feedback.!

Fine in theory, Bill, but it's likely to net you retaliatory feedback yourself (why so many sellers wait for your feedback before giving you theirs). That said, I wouldn't be "proud" of not giving negative feedback to scumbags as that earlier poster professed to be.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Bandersnatch, Business sellers cannot leave negative or retaliatory feedback, we always wait for buyers feedback purely to see that they are happy with their item. Approx 40% of buyers do not leave any feedback at all.

This is a real can of worms, we have been selling for a number of years now as a business seller with over 14,000 feedback (+40% who do not post it) so quite a few sales considering we only sell one off collectables.

We have suffered our share of dishonest buyers, scams and outright lying over missing items, we just take it in our stride.

We spend approx £15k a year in our tiny village Post Office and we spend approx £2k a year on packaging materials. We used to just add a nominal amount to our postage fees to partially defray our packing costs but when EB at a stroke took 10% of all our billed postage charges that REALLY hurt. They do nothing for it at all!

I would LOVE to know if anyone on here can comment on the actual legality of what they do here? How can they charge fees on a postal service that they have nothing to do with?

£1500 pa straight in their pockets!

So now we cost that into our postage charges (giving EB even more profit in the process). It is clear in our listing what we charge and if buyers do not like it we advise them not to bid. Simple enough!

We always offer combined postage on multiple items and even advise bidders to wait for our combined invoice if they are bidding on other items. We have a large number or repeat buyers all over the world.

It does seem that EB is moving away from the auction format andjust want 'widget sellers' but we will see.

Cheers,

Martin

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 12/12/2016 15:27:57:

Posted by Cornish Jack on 12/12/2016 15:01:12:

The only safeguard for the buyer is HONESTLY assessed feedback.!

Fine in theory, Bill, but it's likely to net you retaliatory feedback yourself (why so many sellers wait for your feedback before giving you theirs). That said, I wouldn't be "proud" of not giving negative feedback to scumbags as that earlier poster professed to be.

Sellers cannot leave negative or neutral feedback. For several years they can only leave positive or none at all.

Roger

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