E5 Petrol [please discuss]

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E5 Petrol [please discuss]

Home Forums The Tea Room E5 Petrol [please discuss]

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  • #747558
    peak4
    Participant
      @peak4

      Unless I’ve missed it somewhere above, I think there is a light misunderstanding of the use of E in E5 & E10 fuels (EN228).
      Originally it was intended just to refer to Ethanol, but has now expanded to the Environmentally friendly additives, which includes Methanol, up to 3% in EU standards for automotive fuel, also IPA and others, though it may vary from area to area.
      N.B. Something may have changed in The UK post Brexit
      https://carbonrecycling.com/industries/gasoline-blending

      Have a look at this pdf or alternative website; both UK
      https://www.highlandfuels.co.uk/documents/Unlead-Petrol-Specification.pdf

      Gasoline EN 228

      And another one
      https://www.methanol.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/4.-Greg-Dolan-Overview-of-Global-Methanol-Fuel-Blending.pdf

      Bill

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      #747562
      Don Cox
      Participant
        @doncox80133

        I would think the knock sensor(s) would be responsible for preventing BMWs “pinking”, not the Vanos valve timing.  Anyway, of far greater importance is the effect of the stupid Ethanol fuel additive on 2 stroke garden machinery.  Some carbs react very badly to the stuff, others seem to be unaffected running on contentedly into old age.  I have changed to mixing my 2 stroke fuel from E5 and adding fuel preserver to stop the it from going off because of the time I store it.

        #747563
        Vic
        Participant
          @vic
          On Michael Gilligan Said:
          On Vic Said:

          I’ve been running my car on E5 for quite some time but I saw something recently that said it’s a waste of time if you can run E10 (I can) in your car. I need to top up soon so I was planning on filling up with E10 unless someone can persuade me otherwise?

          Let me try to persuade you otherwise, Vic

          [and I think Jason will support my findings]

          The BMW 2.5 engine is capable of running without “pinking”on most fuel, because the VVT is very sophisticated… BUT … the general difference in performance is immediately obvious to the driver.

          Note also the closing paragraph that I quoted from SUZUKI

          … By all means try it for yourself.

          MichaelG.

          I believe it was a video I saw. And I think they said an engine runs hotter on E5 than E10.
          I’m reasonably sure I get more mpg running on E5 but I don’t think it offsets the additional cost.

           

          #747564
          duncan webster 1
          Participant
            @duncanwebster1
            #747566
            Robert Atkinson 2
            Participant
              @robertatkinson2

              I think the answer to how long any petrol will be available at reasonable cost is impossible to answer and would certainly involve politics. We don’t ant to go there…

              On fuel types I’ve had some experiences.
              Back in the mid 80’s when unleaded was firt made available it was much cheaper than regular leaded. However I had great difficulty getting the filling station attendents to turn on the pump when I tried to fill my 1974 Jenson Healey. They had oviously been told only to sell it to “new” cars. The JH had a 2 litre 16V twin cam Lotus 907 engine. This had been designed from scratch to run on unleaded and meet Californian emissions regulations. I finally got through to the attendents at the local BP.

              I’ve also had a couple of cars with more modern high performance engines and the difference between running on standard and “premium” fuel is noticable. On one it needed a couple of tanks of fuel or a “learned parameters” reset on the ECU to see full effect. Driven normally the fuel comsumption was better but not enough to offset the cost.

              Even a Fiat Multijet direect injection diesel ran better on premium (higher cetane) fuel. Also despite wisdom that putting even a liter of petrol into one of the modern diesls will wreck the pump(s) I actually ran it at motorway speeds for over 200 miles on at least 50% petrol with no lasting damage. A long story but classic 3 factors to make an incident, Unknown brand (black petrol handle), Dark wet windy night and SWMBO when in to pay.

              Robert.

              #747571
              SillyOldDuffer
              Moderator
                @sillyoldduffer
                On Michael Gilligan Said:
                On SillyOldDuffer Said:
                […] However, a useful point emeges – Michael may have misread it the leaflet!  He said ‘<em style=”font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;”>The engine is explicitly stated to be unsuitable for fuels with more than 5% Methanol content …‘     Thing is E5 and E10 contain Ethanol, not Methanol, so the engine might be OK.

                No, Dave … Michael did not misread the leaflet

                Pleased to hear it!

                I quoted the full text from the Drivers Handbook, which covers all three options, specifically in the hope of avoiding this confusion.

                In which case, why is the topic entitled ‘E5 Petrol [please discuss]’?  And what are the three options – I only see two?

                The fact that the UK fuel presently uses Ethanol does not guarantee that it always will.

                True, but it doesn’t alter the price of fish; your leaflet doesn’t cover what happens if government or the market switch to petrol other than E5 or E10.  My guess is they’re more likely to go for E25 than a Methanol blend, but no sign of that at the moment.

                 

                Sorry but ”the engine might be OK” is not a useful comment.

                I suggest it is.   Not possible from the information presented to confirm positively that this car definitely runs without problems on E10.

                1. May not matter, but the clip starts with an unresolved ‘if’.  Does the car have a RON95 label or not?
                2. There’s a second ‘if’ in the Gasoline/Ethanol blends advice.  ‘Blends of this type may be used in your vehicle if they are no more than 10% ethanol.’  In other words, low risk burning E5, but E10 is right on the limit.

                Looking good, unless point 2 is a worry,  but more research needed.

                MichaelG.

                A few posters comment they’ve been running old bangers on E10 without problems.   Sorry but their input is low-value.   An E5 only car doesn’t fall apart the moment someone gives it a whiff of of E10!  It might pink, though most EMUs will hide that.  The big hidden problem is that any seal or pipework that’s not alcohol resistant will start rotting from the inside out, probably slowly.  The owner is blissfully unaware until he spots a fault like a pool of petrol under the car.   He might never realise – if 25% of vehicles run on E10 fail prematurely, the problem is real, even though 75% of owners got away with it.  In general personal experience of this kind of problem isn’t much cop: you need a sample size of at least 1000, and it mustn’t be self-selecting.

                Dave

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