Dykem Layout Blue Remover

[BB12Participant @bb12]

[BB12Participant @bb12]

Like the Blue itself the Remover looks pretty expensive.
Are there any cheaper alternatives for the initial prep & final removal stages?

Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Methelated spirit ?

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

For the prep/remover, I would think meths, carb, brake cleaner, acetone, alcohol or any other de-greaser would suit.

Tony

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

I can confirm that isopropyl alcohol does work; it's what I use. Acetone also works. Both of which are safer than brake cleaner…which will also work, but is nasty stuff.

[BB12Participant @bb12]

Many thanks for all your super fast replies.

Looks like Mike's tried & tested suggestion of isopropyl alcohol will be my best solution.
A quick search indicates 500ml for around £5 – £6 including post & packing.

Thanks again.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

I use meths as it’s what I usually have to hand

Dave

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Posted by BB12 on 13/03/2022 13:10:32:

Looks like Mike's tried & tested suggestion of isopropyl alcohol will be my best solution.
A quick search indicates 500ml for around £5 – £6 including post & packing.

Does that mean you can't buy isopropyl alcohol at the local pharmacy where you live?

Here in the US I've only seen as high as 91% at the pharmacy. I think 70% is becoming more typical. If you do any electronics soldering, then get the 99% isopropyl as it cleans soldering flux better (less water).

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 13/03/2022 12:40:44:

Methelated spirit ?

+1 Easier to get from DIY stores, builders merchants etc than iso-propyl alcohol.

They're about the same price, meths slightly cheaper. If buying from a UK Pharmacy the assistant might know it as 'Rubbing Alcohol' rather than iso-propyl alcohol.

Dave

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

I should point out…While I do use isopropyl alcohol, acetone will remove Dykem more quickly. I just don't like the smell of acetone. I have both. Acetone is pretty good at removing stickiness from labels and such, where isopropyl alcohol isn't so good. And acetone is also known as "nail polish remover". The store where I buy it has it as 100% acetone, without the nail/skin conditioners. (Interesting fact: Your body actually makes acetone in small quantities.) Acetone will also cause temporary skin cooling…If you use it outside when it's bitterly cold and get it on your fingers you'll not want to do that again. There's probably potential there for nerve damage if done too much. It may be a trigger for those who get Raynaud's syndrome.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Just as an aside, what is the difference between Rubbing alcohol, Surgical spirit and Methelated spirit ?

[BB12Participant @bb12]

Posted by Dave S on 13/03/2022 13:16:36:

I use meths as it’s what I usually have to hand

Dave

Usually I have some too, quite handy for the old Mammod stationary engine etc.
But when I checked just now the bottle was empty, assume it had evaporated. (Don't think we have a secret meths drinker in the family!).

[BB12Participant @bb12]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/03/2022 14:02:40:

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 13/03/2022 12:40:44:

Methelated spirit ?

+1 Easier to get from DIY stores, builders merchants etc than iso-propyl alcohol.

They're about the same price, meths slightly cheaper. If buying from a UK Pharmacy the assistant might know it as 'Rubbing Alcohol' rather than iso-propyl alcohol.

Dave

I think the 99% iso-propyl alcohol is useful for other purposes too, as MikeK suggested.
I do a fair amount of electronics soldering and it is also used for many other cleaning jobs so seems like a useful product to keep in the cupboard.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 13/03/2022 14:15:59:

Just as an aside, what is the difference between Rubbing alcohol, Surgical spirit and Methelated spirit ?

 

Rubbing alcohol is 70% isopropanol, Surgical spirit is ethanol denatured with methanol and castor oil, methylated spirit is ethanol nenatured with methanol, pyridine and a blue dye, IMS or Industrial methylated spirits is ethanol denatured with methanol.

 

When getting spirit to keep your glass insulin syringes in, make sure that the chemist doesn't dispense surgical spirit. It really buggers up the syringes and makes the pistons sticky.

All of them can be used to fire the Mamod steam engine, but the stuff from the NHS was best, 'cos it was free.

 

Edit to add that I wish the gauge 0 steam railway at the various model engineering exhibitions used IMS instead of mythylated spirit. The Pyridine stench from the meths that they use is vile.

Edited By Mark Rand on 13/03/2022 14:54:42

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Mark Rand on 13/03/2022 14:52:22:

When getting spirit to keep your glass insulin syringes in, make sure that the chemist doesn't dispense surgical spirit. It really buggers up the syringes and makes the pistons sticky.

In the days of glass syringes my dad, a GP, kept then in 'mixed spirit' which was a mixture of meths and surgical spirit but alas I never knew in what proportions. Occasional redirection to meths burners was allowed if I was not too cheeky about it.

[BB12Participant @bb12]

Posted by Mark Rand on 13/03/2022 14:52:22:,

IMS or Industrial methylated spirits is ethanol denatured with methanol.

It seems that life after Brexit is just as complicated, if not more so, than before:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excise-notice-473-production-distribution-and-use-of-denatured-alcohol

There are 3 approved classes of denatured alcohol in the UK:

completely denatured alcohol (CDA)
industrial denatured alcohol (IDA)
trade specific denatured alcohol (TSDA)

IDA is the grade of denatured alcohol designed for industrial use. It consists of 95 parts by volume of alcohol and 5 parts by volume of wood naphtha, or a substitute for wood naphtha.

Methyl alcohol (methanol) is not identical to legally defined wood naphtha, or to any approved wood naphtha substitute. You must not use methanol as a direct substitute for wood naphtha in the manufacture of any type of denatured alcohol.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by BB12 on 13/03/2022 14:35:39:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/03/2022 14:02:40:

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 13/03/2022 12:40:44:

Methelated spirit ?

+1 Easier to get from DIY stores, builders merchants etc than iso-propyl alcohol.

They're about the same price, meths slightly cheaper. If buying from a UK Pharmacy the assistant might know it as 'Rubbing Alcohol' rather than iso-propyl alcohol.

Dave

I think the 99% iso-propyl alcohol is useful for other purposes too, as MikeK suggested.
I do a fair amount of electronics soldering and it is also used for many other cleaning jobs so seems like a useful product to keep in the cupboard.

Agreed. I have it for that reason. Also, depending on what needs dissolving: Acetone, White Spirit, Turps, and WD40. Meths and iso-propyl are much less likely to damage plastics than acetone, which also attacks skin a bit.

Just tested Dykem Steel Blue to see what gets it off best.

• Cutex Nail Varnish Remover (Acetone) and Carburettor Cleaner (Xylene, Ethanol & Acetone) are best. Carburettor Cleaner not recommended though – not safe in a confined space.
• Meths and IPA work equally well, requiring an extra rub to remove compared with Acetone and Carb Cleaner. The fumes are distinctly less unpleasant.
• Turps requires heavy rubbing – poor
• Strong Acetic Acid has no effect
• Dykem is close to waterproof and is oil resistant. Water and oil-based solvents are no good.
• I've run out of White Spirit and WD40. I wouldn't expect them to remove Dykem

Looking at the label reveals Dykem contains Nitrocellulose which gives it a paint-like quality. Compared with my unbranded bottle of layout blue, Dykem is smellier and takes longer to dry but produces a thick solid layer unlikely to come off when banging around the workshop.

The unbranded blue is almost certainly a simple mix of Methylene Blue dye and meths. It's thinner, fast drying, and less wear resistant than Dykem but meths quickly gets it off. Of the two I prefer the unbranded type because I mostly use layout blue to create a few reference check marks, which don't need Dykem's hard-wearing wonderfulness. (Actually I'm as likely to use a felt-tip marker as layout blue, if at all. For what I do a milling machine with DRO eliminates much of the need for layout marking…)

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/03/2022 15:46:22

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I use cellulose gun wash

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Anyone living in, or visiting France, might find it useful to know that their burning alcohol is made from rubbish brandy, and has a much nicer smell than british Meths. It is sold at builders merchants and DIY shops in litre bottles.

Cheers, Tim

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

LBSC used to recommend a mixture of Methylene blue, Meths and shellac – ie blue french polish so meths or thinners would probably be the best solvent

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 13/03/2022 16:59:32:

Anyone living in, or visiting France, might find it useful to know that their burning alcohol is made from rubbish brandy

Useful…And humorous!

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/03/2022 15:44:31:

I've run out of White Spirit and WD40. I wouldn't expect them to remove Dykem

Out of curiosity I tried WD-40 and it does not remove Dykem.

Mike

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I've now got some Acetone coming. Dykem blue is fantastic stuff but it does rather show through Acid 8 primer. Thanks for the advice (I was not the original poster but I'm glad they asked the question).

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I use cellulose thinners only because I use it with some of the things that I use to decorate my wooden turning especially thinning some of the primers and finishes

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Derek Lane on 14/03/2022 09:32:40:

I use cellulose thinners only because I use it with some of the things that I use to decorate my wooden turning especially thinning some of the primers and finishes

Cellulose thinners should work well on Dykem because it's mostly Xylene, like Carb Cleaner.

Last time I bought thinners it was expensive, but it was a tiny can – cheaper to bulk buy. My main objection is the fumes – needs more ventilation than my workshop provides. Good solvent though.

Dave

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