DuckDuckGo [search engine]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There's nothing new about state surveillance.

As a first-year student I joined the Anti-Nazi League. I was ina hall of residence and for the whole of the rest of that year every single letter or package I received was opened before I got it and either taped up or put in an outer envelope marked 'damaged in post', so you can assume the Post Office in the early 80s were as co-operative as any ISP or search engine.

They probably gave up when they realised I was too drunk to start a revolution…

Neil

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Quite a few changes since,

“Gentlemen do not read each other’s mail,” Henry Stimson famously commented when in 1929, as the U.S. Secretary of State, he withdrew funding from the Black Chamber program that had been deciphering messages sent by foreign ambassadors.

John

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Been using DuckDuckGo (Firefox/Linux) ever since it started up, and very happy with it – what is Google?

I noted someone suggested Adblock – sometime ago Adblock began taking money from 'some' advertisers to whitelist them – in other words, you can't block them. An alternative is 'uBlock Origin', which I have found works well, and is unobtrusive. It can be found under the Add-ons in Firefox.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Wow, we're doing "Echelon" now.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

The Internet is being reinvented as we speak. Still being developed, but this won't turn out to be vapourware with ten years hard work behind it.

Brought to you from Troon.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I wish internet explorer would get a better rapp, the criticism of the new stuff is pretty justified but for many years this was all many of us could use, not to mention all of microsofts earlier software brands? I never hear anyone giving a thanks for all that.

As for the spying stories, this is nothing new i'm afraid, a huge listening post up near Yorkshire, Harrogate, hundreds of arrays, concrete buildings with no windows, no go zones on the base, you name it, I was there.

They've been listening in to who they're interested in for years, they actually have written policy for this activity on most council websites, you can request to view all the information they've taken for you, for a nominal fee, and 40 days notice of application, except they wont let you see the juicy stuff If you've been a bad boy..

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 19:45:03

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 19:24:38:

I wish internet explorer would get a better rapp, the criticism of the new stuff is pretty justified but for many years this was all many of us could use, not to mention all of microsofts earlier software brands? I never hear anyone giving a thanks for all that.

As for the spying stories, this is nothing new i'm afraid, a huge listening post up near Yorkshire, Harrogate, hundreds of arrays, concrete buildings with no windows, no go zones on the base, you name it, I was there.

They've been listening in to who they're interested in for years, they actually have written policy for this activity on most council websites, you can request to view all the information they've taken for you, for a nominal fee, and 40 days notice of application, except they wont let you see the juicy stuff If you've been a bad boy..

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 19:45:03

I doubt that you could ever comprehend just how ridiculous what you have shared with us, sounds to us.

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

If You ever wonder how secretive the Gov't can be, We had a small green sheet metal building about the size of the sheet metal sheds sold at the big box stores for lawn and garden storage. Drove by it for 25 years , demolished one day then an article in the paper said it was an Anti Aircraft Hawk missile outpost to protect an airfield 20 miles away. What a wow that would have been if it went off while driving by, only 20' off the road.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Mick Charity on 16/12/2016 20:29:19:

 

I doubt that you could ever comprehend just how ridiculous what you have shared with us, sounds to us.

 

 

…what do you want me to do with that information?

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 23:52:57

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 19:24:, except they wont let you see the juicy stuff If you've been a bad boy..

Michael W

Even then you still wont get to see anything! The only way you will see anything is if your part of the machine and then the only way you get to see anything is on a need to know basis, very high pay grade & security clearance required !!!

Where did you think the tax money goes ? Word is NSA stands for Never Say Anything……………..b

Edited By bodge on 17/12/2016 04:18:04

Edited By bodge on 17/12/2016 04:19:51

[JAParticipant @ja]

Ever since the Garden of Eden one has been spied on. You just have to accept it happens and places like the GCHQ exist.

If you want to avoid being spied on don't have a job, don't have a bank account, don't be on benefit, don't have a passport, don't have a national insurance number, ………………………., don't have a birth certificate. Even then they will be looking at you.

Otherwise try to make oneself insignificant or become a spy. Probably the last is not a good idea.

Whether spying by a government is a sin is another matter.

JA

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JA on 17/12/2016 09:27:20:

…

Otherwise try to make oneself insignificant or become a spy. Probably the last is not a good idea.

…

JA

Spying is a perfectly respectable career option. I'd recommend it to anybody.

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 23:41:58:

Posted by Mick Charity on 16/12/2016 20:29:19:

 

I doubt that you could ever comprehend just how ridiculous what you have shared with us, sounds to us.

 

 

…what do you want me to do with that information?

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 23:52:57

I thought you were pulling our legs with the post starting 'I wish internet explorer would get a better rapp…' , Michael!

However, if you meant the Microsoft part seriously, then you're expressing an opinion that requires us to ignore history. This is difficult to do if you were there when it happened.

In the case of Internet Explorer, Microsoft were a late arrival on the web. Netscape was the first graphical Browser, and was itself preceded by character browsers like lynx. IE was a 'good thing' but Microsoft's commercial strategy was to crush the competition, often using methods later judged illegal. Despite a series of heavy fines across several administrations, I would judge Microsoft's strategy successful from their point of view, but it was not good for customers.

So what should you do before posting? A bit more research please!

Please, please don't be discouraged from posting. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts even when I occasionally disagree with them. Being human makes us all fallible. Youngsters tend to have opinions flawed by lack of experience. We oldsters tend to the opposite problem – we may have convictions based on obsolete experiences, now invalid. You can choose which type of erroneous opinion is the worse sin, being out-of-date or being naive. For my part, I favour youth: it's much easier to learn from experience than it is to break old habits.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 17/12/2016 10:38:05

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by JA on 17/12/2016 09:27:20:

Ever since the Garden of Eden one has been spied on. You just have to accept it happens and places like the GCHQ exist.

If you want to avoid being spied on don't have a job, don't have a bank account, don't be on benefit, don't have a passport, don't have a national insurance number, ………………………., don't have a birth certificate. Even then they will be looking at you.

Otherwise try to make oneself insignificant or become a spy. Probably the last is not a good idea.

Whether spying by a government is a sin is another matter.

JA

Indeed, you can't avoid it and their game is to be one step ahead of everyone else, it should hardly surprise people it does happen, Meanwhile just go ahead with everyday life and be comforted in the knowledge they aren't there to punish that!

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Anyone who thinks the products of brains of Bletchley Park were disbanded after WW2 is living in a fools paradise. The "Proposed" change in Law to allow "Snooping" on telecommunications is only to "Legalise" what's been going on for years. It's reasonably tolerant when the authorities do it but unacceptable when organisations like the miniature sloth get their fingers in the pie.

Regards Ian.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/12/2016 10:37:45:

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/12/2016 23:41:58:

Posted by Mick Charity on 16/12/2016 20:29:19:

I doubt that you could ever comprehend just how ridiculous what you have shared with us, sounds to us.

So what should you do before posting? A bit more research please!

Please, please don't be discouraged from posting. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts even when I occasionally disagree with them. Being human makes us all fallible. Youngsters tend to have opinions flawed by lack of experience. We oldsters tend to the opposite problem – we may have convictions based on obsolete experiences, now invalid. You can choose which type of erroneous opinion is the worse sin, being out-of-date or being naive. For my part, I favour youth: it's much easier to learn from experience than it is to break old habits.

Cheers,

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 17/12/2016 10:38:05

Well I don't mind being a harmless crank for the sake of being wrong! I'd take advice from you any day of the week Dave and I do take it in good stead. I'm only as old as the nineties so my range of experience is certainly limited.

As for being ridiculous, I don't mind, people only need to ask themselves why they want to ridicule? If it makes them feel better, then maybe they could do with a better new year? It'd be a sad world if the closest thing they got to kindness was the way they talk to me..

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by JA on 17/12/2016 09:27:20:

Ever since the Garden of Eden one has been spied on. You just have to accept it happens and places like the GCHQ exist.

If you want to avoid being spied on don't have a job, don't have a bank account, don't be on benefit, don't have a passport, don't have a national insurance number, ………………………., don't have a birth certificate. Even then they will be looking at you.

Otherwise try to make oneself insignificant or become a spy. Probably the last is not a good idea.

Whether spying by a government is a sin is another matter.

JA

 

When the men and women that see themselves as government go to war, they sacrifice the people they represent ( and of course, 'the enemy' ) in order to satisfy their wont and are willing to do so by the million. From this, it seems pretty obvious to me, that lesser evils, such as monitoring people, having control of them, putting fear into them and controlling their money is something our 'leaders' do without a second thought.

That doesn't sit well in my mind, so I position myself accordingly.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 17/12/2016 11:24:24

Edited By blowlamp on 17/12/2016 11:25:02

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

My answer is to create as much 'chaff' as possible, you'll find that I'm a follower of the Union of Conscientiously Work-Shy Elements and only drink on every other odd day, while working is a no no and bank accounts!!! my uncle in Botswana deals with them.

As for spying I have been a spy and spied on since a kid and have every I spy book that has come out, my favourite is I Spy a Skeleton, I actually look in my cupboards every night before bed.

My advise is to get yourself a bit of Moldavite **LINK**

"We keep Bill around as Chaff, we don't have to run fast, just faster than Bill….."

[JAParticipant @ja]

Moving the subject slightly

I believe modern encryption methods use a key and trap door technique that has been around for about 20 years. The inventors, Californian wizz-kids, got a lot of publicity at the time particularly as the code was absolutely secure (all codes are said to be absolutely secure). Then it was found that the method was already known and an inventor lived in Britain. Again with some publicity the Californians met the British gentleman at Kemble railway station in Gloucestershire. That is the story.

Kemble is about 20 miles from GCHQ at Cheltenham and on the same railway line to London. Are you going to tell these modern encryption techniques are secure?

[addition] I am sure by just writing GCHQ makes me visible to them.

JA

Edited By JA on 17/12/2016 11:47:43

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by JA on 17/12/2016 11:44:52:

Moving the subject slightly

I believe modern encryption methods use a key and trap door technique that has been around for about 20 years. The inventors, Californian wizz-kids, got a lot of publicity at the time particularly as the code was absolutely secure (all codes are said to be absolutely secure). Then it was found that the method was already known and an inventor lived in Britain. Again with some publicity the Californians met the British gentleman at Kemble railway station in Gloucestershire. That is the story.

Kemble is about 20 miles from GCHQ at Cheltenham and on the same railway line to London. Are you going to tell these modern encryption techniques are secure?

[addition] I am sure by just writing GCHQ makes me visible to them.

JA

Edited By JA on 17/12/2016 11:47:43

Buy £10 worth of bitcoin and see for yourself.

Seven years after launch and under constant attack from hackers, the encryption has proved impervious.

Martin.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

When the men and women that see themselves as government go to war, they sacrifice the people they represent ( and of course, 'the enemy' ) in order to satisfy their wont and are willing to do so by the million. From this, it seems pretty obvious to me, that lesser evils, such as monitoring people, having control of them, putting fear into them and controlling their money is something our 'leaders' do without a second thought.

That doesn't sit well in my mind, so I position myself accordingly.

Ah ! you mean you became a " leader"

Clever move

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 17/12/2016 12:04:55:

When the men and women that see themselves as government go to war, they sacrifice the people they represent ( and of course, 'the enemy' ) in order to satisfy their wont and are willing to do so by the million. From this, it seems pretty obvious to me, that lesser evils, such as monitoring people, having control of them, putting fear into them and controlling their money is something our 'leaders' do without a second thought.

That doesn't sit well in my mind, so I position myself accordingly.

Ah ! you mean you became a " leader"

Clever move

Nah, just a moving target.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

If our government feels the need to spy on people to keep myself & my family safe from the murderers who abound this world of ours that's fine by me!

Tony

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

What annoys me is I have not given my permission to use data that belongs to me to anyone and yet by foul means they take my personal i fo and use it to make money for themselves, I am fed up with these people who think they can do anything they please, smacks of the 3rd reich, and yes I as an x serviceman who done my job in Malaya and the Falklands and a short trip to Northern Ireland and these people send the plebs like me to further their ambitions while tbey sit on their arses and order their next drink and work out how to prosecute people fo clearing their s$'t up

IT maybe unacceptable on this forum but I am angry about all this and I shall have my say

Mick h take to the steets

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by blowlamp on 17/12/2016 11:55:20:

Posted by JA on 17/12/2016 11:44:52:

Moving the subject slightly

I believe modern encryption methods use a key and trap door technique that has been around for about 20 years. The inventors, Californian wizz-kids, got a lot of publicity at the time particularly as the code was absolutely secure (all codes are said to be absolutely secure). Then it was found that the method was already known and an inventor lived in Britain. Again with some publicity the Californians met the British gentleman at Kemble railway station in Gloucestershire. That is the story.

Kemble is about 20 miles from GCHQ at Cheltenham and on the same railway line to London. Are you going to tell these modern encryption techniques are secure?

[addition] I am sure by just writing GCHQ makes me visible to them.

JA

Edited By JA on 17/12/2016 11:47:43

 

Buy £10 worth of bitcoin and see for yourself.

Seven years after launch and under constant attack from hackers, the encryption has proved impervious.

 

Martin.

There is a lot of difference between hackers and GCHQ. The latter would not tell you they had hacked anything and would not leave a trail. Their employees are far better qualified than the average hacker. OK lots of governments employ hackers and may have used them against other but they don't admit it. The palaver in the press and the USA is an example. An even better one was the destruction of the Iranian uranium enrichment programme.

If you have hacked a secure system, broken a code, the last thing you do is to tell everyone. Back in the 1920s the Government used to announce to a great fanfare in the press that they had broken the Russian codes. Eventually the Russians started using a one page random letter system and then the code breakers did not read anything.

JA

 

 

Edited By JA on 17/12/2016 12:32:45

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